7.1 - Jobs, meet sandpaper

[BigCheez]

An encounter with trash packs is usually long enough you need to dump at least one lily in uptime if not two. The distribution of uptime vs downtime in a normal dungeon run meant you couldn’t use only downtime lilys. The system was a coordinated use for uptime lilys and is also why it worked better before misery was DPS neutral in single target

In my experience, dungeon trash pulls are usually over long before you get anywhere close to generating 3 lilies. The exception being the first few weeks expansion release, most players massively outgear dungeon content for the remaining 99% of the games lifecycle.

[Alice_Rivers]

I prefer to give up a GCD of dps than let people die, thanks, if I wanted every GCD to be dps I'd play an actual DPS job.

[BigCheez]

I prefer to give up a GCD of dps than let people die, thanks, if I wanted every GCD to be dps I'd play an actual DPS job.

All healers in XIV have more than enough oGCD heals to keep the party alive without GCD healing in casual content. If people are dying, the problem is not glare/holy, it's in your usage (or lack thereof) of the rest of your kit.

If you're choosing a healer because you want to heal primarily, you're playing the wrong game. See the near-1000 page "healer strike" thread for details.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[...]You also don't need to weave heals when you've already cast an Afflatus heal. I'm not going to cast Afflatus Solace so that I can weave Benediction, am I?

That's where they can throw in Tetra/Veil/Benison and the likes, non benedictions basically. Misery can also be used to weave something when needed, and is not a dps loss to do so provided they remember to dump it before anything dies.

Holy 1.5s cast time just eliminates that and gives them free weave anything and anytime they want free from required thought---that is where I have problem with their intention to greenlight this change. There's already 3 other healer who does this.

[BigCheez]

That's where they can throw in Tetra/Veil/Benison and the likes, non benedictions basically. Misery can also be used to weave something when needed, and is not a dps loss to do so provided they remember to dump it before anything dies.

Holy 1.5s cast time just eliminates that and gives them free weave anything and anytime they want free from required thought---that is where I have problem with their intention to greenlight this change. There's already 3 other healer who does this.

I mean, sure. You CAN use Afflatus heals to weave things like Benison/Aquaveil, but you don't need to and will deal more damage if you just spam Holy and clip your GCD to cast those abilities between spells.

WHM having 2.5 second casts fits the idea of WHM but not the actual implementation.

[Absurdity]

PLD and GNB had near identical damage output in M4S due to how well PLD handles the downtime.

That's why I specifically mentioned M4S as the sole exception and only because of how much better Paladin deals with the increased melee downtime.
And I'm not even against this kind of design, provided every tank has it's own niche in which they outperform the others...but we don't have that.

The fix here is not to bring tank damage in line. The fix is to make GNB and DRK's damage rotations more interesting and complex, with more room for optimisation, so that the difference in damage output is warranted.

You won't find me disagreeing with this, that's however not our current reality.

If we're going to make all the tank jobs 123 spend with identical damage output, we might as well just make 1 job called "tank" and WAR, PLD, GNB and DRK are just skins that you buy on Mogstation.

This is pretty much the current reality.

Do Warrior and Paladin have better self sustain? Sure.
Does that single-target self sustain justify an up to 2k dps difference when none of them have a noticeably more intricate rotation? I don't think so.

Hell, we had less of a dps discrepancy back in Shadowbringers when tanks were still less homogenized than they are now.
They somehow manage to mess up the balancing even harder, be that offensively or defensively, every time they bring the tanks closer together in terms of gameplay.

[BigCheez]

That's why I specifically mentioned M4S as the sole exception and only because of how much better Paladin deals with the increased melee downtime.
And I'm not even against this kind of design, provided every tank has it's own niche in which they outperform the others...but we don't have that.



You won't find me disagreeing with this, that's however not our current reality.


This is pretty much the current reality.

Do Warrior and Paladin have better self sustain? Sure.
Does that single-target self sustain justify an up to 2k dps difference when none of them have a noticeably more intricate rotation? I don't think so.

Hell, we had less of a dps discrepancy back in Shadowbringers when tanks were still less homogenized than they are now.
They somehow manage to mess up the balancing even harder, be that offensively or defensively, every time they bring the tanks closer together in terms of gameplay.

Sure, but I don't like these changes. I would strongly prefer if the tanks were made more unique, not less.

Another example is giving Dark Mind and Dark Missionary/Heart of Light 50% efficiency vs physical damage. Honestly, just remove physical and magic damage at this point. They don't serve any purpose any more. Just add them to list of dead features that have been eroded over time.

A much better solution (IMO) would have been to buff Dark Mind from 20% vs. magic to 30% vs magic and DM/HoL from 20% vs. magic to 25% or even 30%.

Everything is becoming so samey and monotonous that I feel like I'm bored of a new patch before it even releases. Oh, joy. Another x.1 patch that's exactly the same as every previous x.1 patch that the game has had for the last 10 years, except the game has had even more features gutted since the last one and the story content feels AI generated. It's like Groundhog Day except every day gets an hour shorter.

[Valence]

We've done it, we've finally removed all points of failure to play jobs. Now you can fully enjoy DDR encounter mechanics, the only thing that matters in the game.

#McDonaldized.

[Moqi]

Holy being made a 1.5 second cast is one of the few changes in this patch that I think makes sense. WHM having longer cast times made sense when the job was more GCD heal oriented. Now that it does most of it's healing via oGCD, it makes more sense for it to be able to weave those oGCDs.

Greeding Holy not to clip oCGDs or move was literally the only fun to be had in dungeons as WHM. And now that's gone.

[Jangles]

It does strike me as a bit confusing that a job where mobility would be expected is somehow "ruined' by being given another skill to be mobile with (in a game that can and will insta-kill you for not staying on the move in some fights), or how the job with a major failure state baked right into its core rotation that no other job does is somehow "too easy" now.

These same people probably wept over the removal of Anatman, or insist Flamethrower is a top-rung skill, lol.

Yes indeed, taking away a bit of risk from a move is a bad thing. The risk is part of what makes a move feel good.

It does strike me as a bit confusing that a job where mobility would be expected is somehow "ruined' by being given another skill to be mobile with

You say this as if TCJ was removing overall mobility, a move being the ONE move in your kit that acts differently makes the rotation more varied and fun.

(in a game that can and will insta-kill you for not staying on the move in some fights)

Exactly, another reason why it felt good to use, positioning according to the mechanics that were about to happen so you can execute TCJ smoothly was part of what made it fun. Moving it slightly earlier or later in your rotation to adjust to the fight was enjoyable.

Also the class being "too easy" is not the problem, it's that it's easier not "too easy". A move requiring the slightest amount of brain function to execute is indeed more fun than just pressing buttons whenever.