Feedback for SQX: The game is healthy (enough) but Spriggan world/Chaos DC is dead

[VoidsentStatus]

No, this is not relevant if I understand situation for 2. if at that moment you would not be able to log off you would not be able to DC PF apply. However, if you would be able to log off (includes non-sanctuary logoff) then you are fine to PF apply. These are logical equivalents. If you can log of and transfer... the game can macro style do the exact same. That's all we are talking about here (+ the reservation signalling).
If you mean once you've arrived at the destination world... well that's no different to now. If you manage to be in a cut when your PF is ready to go they may not be happy, and your home world has bog all to do with that.
Remember you do not wait until instance queue to transfer, you transfer upon application. Your then on PF DC while waiting for host to queue.

out of space again...

Oh, no no no. I'm referring to like in-game activities. Most people that I know talk to friends, do crafting, maybe open world stuff, fc management, chill in their house, etc. while waiting on a PF to fill. All those passive activities are gone if they're on another Data Center while waiting for the PF. It's something that exists in the current system, but people would complain about for Cross DC stuff. They'd want it to work like normal so that's a feature to figure out otherwise I see people just home world transfering to the Data Center that hosts the most PF's normally or even avoiding other data centers potentially so they don't have to break their tradition while PF waiting.

[VoidsentStatus]

now -> you position is reserved until you are travelled and 'in' the PF.

before -> If you apply to a place, your going to take it when you get there.

Which system are we using? What you said before sounded like:
- character applies for dc travel
- dc travel completes
- character loads into the game
- pf slot is saved
- character can join pf now

or is it:
- character applies for dc travel
- pf slot is saved
- dc travel is completes
- character loads in game and can join pf now

at what exact step is the slot saved, and when does it disappear?

the wording is confusing me.

Semantic response: The reason for semantics is to avoid misleading statements. To say traveling works, implies that it is in an acceptable state and has things that we can use. To say traveling works is the same as saying a car works, while it can only go 30mph instead of 100+, the air conditioning is broke, the brakes are trash, the windows don't roll down, the radio requires a manual button to refresh the signal to keep playing songs properly. Does it serve the purpose of a car? Sure. But that doesn't mean we have a lot that we should we taking from it to create something else since the majority of it is a failure. When it comes to travel, the majority of it is a failure. We don't have messaging across DC's, we don't have updated friend info, we don't have passive buffs, we don't have retainer use, we can't look at plot information, we can't do ranked pvp, while hosting PF you can't tell people on the same data center consistently and can get forced to use /reply instead of direct messaging, There's a stupid amount of jank to where I don't even consider it a finished product.

as for this:
"<TimeLimit><AvItemLevel><Status><J1>..<J24><Filled1>..<Filled24>"

The problem is that the Filled1-24 is information that we don't even know can be sent as of right now because it doesn't exist in the current system. That Filled is a job description (PLD/SGE/RPR etc.) inside of the character data. And we have 0 character data that has shared across data centers other than name, currently world, and offline/online which is as surface level as you can possibly get. We don't even get current job equipped information for people on the same data center and a small single .png that shows on my friend list doesn't sound really hard to do, but it doesn't exist.

"Then on demand only the full PF info can be obtained. However, it is likely to be more efficient to provide this from the get go."
Yes, because you don't want people to have to click a pokeball on every single raid PF every few minutes for updated information to see where they want to join.

[Gurgeh]

Oh, no no no. I'm referring to like in-game activities. Most people that I know talk to friends, do crafting, maybe open world stuff, fc management, chill in their house, etc. while waiting on a PF to fill. All those passive activities are gone if they're on another Data Center while waiting for the PF. It's something that exists in the current system, but people would complain about for Cross DC stuff. They'd want it to work like normal so that's a feature to figure out otherwise I see people just home world transfering to the Data Center that hosts the most PF's normally or even avoiding other data centers potentially so they don't have to break their tradition while PF waiting.

Indeed.
Its not perfect.
But it means its 50%Ligtht 50%Chaos inconvenienced that way, rather than 100% Chaos.
And hopefully that will be good enough keep a significant number of people from deserting Chaos.
As things are, people come home from work, check their retainers at 17:30, and then they spend 17:45-22:00 on light. Chaos doesn't even get a lookin for people to say 'hi how was your day'
'And actually' once we have more people hosting PF's on Chaos again, hopefully we will get more all Chaos groups again, and more all Light groups again, and that can start to drop to something more like 20%:20% (of all PF places)
Offer free transfers to Chaos to grease the wheels.

Your scenario.... is what he have now. There is no argument for saying 50% improvement is like 0% improvement. No 50% improvement is still improvement for that 50%.

[Gurgeh]

or is it:
- character applies for dc travel
- pf slot is saved and reserved. (Host cannot change that slot, host cannot disband PF. tough)
- dc travel is completes
- character loads in game and can join pf now is already joined now

This (both times, my wording in second was confusing but I meant, from the moment you apply, your joining becomes inevitable)

as for this:
"<TimeLimit><AvItemLevel><Status><J1>..<J24><Filled1>..<Filled24>"

The problem is that the Filled1-24 is information that we don't even know can be sent as of right now because it doesn't exist in the current system. That Filled is a job description (PLD/SGE/RPR etc.) inside of the character data. And we have 0 character data that has shared across data centers other than name, currently world, and offline/online which is as surface level as you can possibly get. We don't even get current job equipped information for people on the same data center and a small single .png that shows on my friend list doesn't sound really hard to do, but it doesn't exist.

"Then on demand only the full PF info can be obtained. However, it is likely to be more efficient to provide this from the get go."
Yes, because you don't want people to have to click a pokeball on every single raid PF every few minutes for updated information to see where they want to join.

It does exist. When I look at a PF, a I can see 1PLD filled, 1SGE FILLED, remaining 1 Tank 1 Healer 4 DPS
You don't get to know 'who is in a PF until you join, except for the host. Well you don't get that now and its irrelevant, if you wanted to you could. Its data on server on Frankfurt, you can send that data to a server in Berlin (or wherever the heck the DCs are physically housed)

https://xivpf.com/listings

All the stuff people are saying cant possibly be transferred from one SQX server to another SQX server by SQX themselves... its all already here on that site. People are already doing it with nothing but character bots ducktaped to a backend.
Yes the currency of that data is going to suck a bit but I suspect that SQX would be able to improve on that. Them being able to actually access the data directly.

[VoidsentStatus]

https://xivpf.com/listings

I just checked. This is a snapshot and not a live update. It took 3 minutes before my party finder got added to the list. I removed my party finder, and it's been 5 minutes and it still hasn't taken me off the list. It's hella delayed.

Edit: 10 minutes now, still showing on the PF list despite it being deleted. I don't know if it's connected to the server if it's not registering the PF being gone yet.

[VoidsentStatus]

https://xivpf.com/listings
.

I just checked. This is a snapshot and not a live update. It took 3 minutes before my party finder got added to the list. I removed my party finder, and it's been 5 minutes and it still hasn't taken me off the list. It's hella delayed.

Edit: 10 minutes now, still showing on the PF list despite it being deleted. I don't know if it's connected to the server if it's not registering the PF being gone yet.

Site is flat out bugged/not practically functional. This PF was made at 9:38PM EST, deleted 9:41PM EST and it's 10:01PM EST and it's giving an updated timer like my PF is still active.

[kajv95]

@Gurgeh you can edit your posts to get around the character limit, just letting you know.

@VoidsentStatus do you ever get tired of arguing in these threads?
my guy clearly said that this is just an example of what people can already do based on the data that they're getting from just polling the frontend. SQEX has the data on their own servers and would not have nearly as much trouble as a system like the website uses. It's just a pretty good example, and you going out of your way to "prove" that it doesn't actually work in 100% realtime is petty as hell ngl.

anyway to be on topic rq, yeah chaos is dead. I would like to have crossdc df/pf yesterday. maybe my fc members would come home from light too.

[VoidsentStatus]

@VoidsentStatus do you ever get tired of arguing in these threads?
my guy clearly said that this is just an example of what people can already do based on the data that they're getting from just polling the frontend. SQEX has the data on their own servers and would not have nearly as much trouble as a system like the website uses. It's just a pretty good example, and you going out of your way to "prove" that it doesn't actually work in 100% realtime is petty as hell ngl.
.

No, considering this is like day 2/3 I'm posting on the forums after not posting for like 3 months and I'm not even messaging for half of the day.

And no the second part, because that lacks an understanding of how systems work. It's a bad example. It's not even delayed. It doesn't even have a timer tied to the server. It's no different than me taking my phone, taking a picture of the newest PF's, entering the basic info into an excel, running an alarm/count-down feature set to run out after an hour, and not even bothering to check and update old party finders AT ALL. There's no way for the basic data being handled that there's an excuse for why a deleted party finder isn't gone after 30 minutes. You can't even run a clock and an updated list of names on the frontend properly, but want to use that as an example of how it can work in a more complex system on the backend that includes blacklisting and needs to have direct linkage.

[Gurgeh]

@Gurgeh you can edit your posts to get around the character limit, just letting you know.

This XIV forum is generally pretty good. I mean it doesn't have all the interaction features we enjoy in discord but then nothing else does either. However, you can't have a long post, but if you edit it you can, I'm sorry that's so "XIV UI" janky. X-D . Hopefully it's deliberate to encourage flowing discussion rather than essays no one reads.

[Gurgeh]

No, considering this is like day 2/3 I'm posting on the forums ...

Thank you for your posts Veneer. They have been very interesting and I appreciate that you thought my posts were worth enough to read (they were quite dense) and the effort you've put into responding.

As for that stuff we've no idea how it's scraping the data. It could be just collated from various different players as they 'chance' to interact with the game. Yeah a different approach could be taken, but at some point someone is doing something ToS prohibited to acheive that. So a better solution may just get itself targeted and banned.
i.e. they scraping the data opportunistically, and hence yeah the PF info may not get updated.

I can't say I wrote these posts with a goal in mind. But I do think it's worth getting these notions out there. One of my pet peeves is players declaring "Square Enix can't be expected to make the game better because what you don't realise is sphagetti code" the clear implication usually being that you should stop even wanting it because it's impossible.
We pay them to write a game we want to play. These issues are complex. If your not a SQX dev you can't declare as impossible anything that mathematically certainly is very feasible. There are a few well know example of mods that proved "hold my bear, this is not that hard..."

Let Square Enix Creative III make their own excuses. They don't need us the paying players to do it for them.