Bozja is the most fun I've had with this game in a long time

[Valence]

CE’s, fragment farming, cluster farming, the levelling raids, trying out the duels

If you just run between the same three fates then call it boring that’s like spamming sastasha till 100 then saying dungeons are boring

CEs are trial bosses but that's fair.
Fragment/cluster farming is what again? Farming mobs?
Leveling raids? Which? DLL, DR and Dalriada were all endgame.
Duels, fair point. When you could actually get in that is. I managed to get into exactly three of those the first day because everybody was making mistakes during CEs, past that point it was already competing against 20-30+ players in every CE for it. On top of it you had to have equipped very specific actions of which many were different depending on the duel, which meant that you couldn't prepare for them all. I declined 80% of the time because it was the wrong CE and the wrong duel I was chosen for and I knew I didn't have the correct lost action enabled for it. Past a point I stopped bothering altogether.

When it came to fates though, how many were they per map? Twenty something? Not very different from overworld fates, you quickly come to run in circles between them, having done most dozens and dozens of times already.

Things like bunny treasure hunts

Bunny treasure hunts were the biggest disaster of eureka to me. Some logograms were locked behind gold chests from those, and they were required for gear progression. Not only the rng for gold chests wasn't stellar (I maybe saw 5 of those in my whole pyros experience), but you also had to pray to get even a slight chance to have an actual bunny because those stupid fates only allocated 8 of them for a hundred of people at release. The chokepoint was real and it frustrated so many players back then. Had to spend millions and millions in gil just to get a chance at those logograms that bunny chests were unable to provide, and I didn't have submarine printers back then to afford that.

Have you ever considered that Field Operations might just not be for you?

I have yes, thus my dissatisfaction with it.

The leveling process is fairly fast, specially if you get the mettle bonus from watching someone beat a Duel. If that little gets to you, it's clear FOs aren't your kind of content to begin with.

It's not mandatory content, you can skip that kind of content and leave it for people who actually like it and want SE to develop further on that line rather than to botch it in an attempt to appeal to a "broader" audience.

I never saw anybody beat a duel live. They're not that hard when you know what to do, but it has never happened when I was going through it. Either way, not a big deal. I was pretty happy after eureka to see that the leveling progress wasn't too hard. I went through it because I wanted to experience the story. And I'm glad I did because there was a lot of it and lore behind it all, and the endgame instances were actually some of the best creative midcore content we've had (especially CLL and Dalriada). Why do I have to trudge through all that leveling tedium to get to the meat of the content? Make the leveling interesting, I say.

What does "broader audience" even means? More popular? Reaching out as many people as possible with the risk of diluting gameplay quality? But what is there even to dilute in the first place there?

[BokoToloko]

Duels.

The access part was largely fixed with the addition of Notoriety. And the specific actions for a duel isn't an issue at all since you can simply save holster loadouts in the cache and you have enough time to Return to the main camp and load the set with all you need for the Duel, get buffs and enter.

Bunny treasure hunts

Bunny fates and treasure hunts were fast enough and, on top of that, you had a total of 3 FATEs you could stay and farm with a group for the Offensive Logogram. Unlocking all Logos actions was quite feasible to anyone except those who get a crisis when they can't get something quickly which, to begin with, isn't the point of Field Operations. The only people that got locked out from this was the people who, to begin with, wasn't interested in the kind of content Eureka brought to begin with.

I have yes, thus my dissatisfaction with it.

Then why are you getting involved in discussion about a matter you're not even interested in to begin with? The logical discourse would be for people who engage in this kind of content fully, since those are the ones who would get the gist of what does and what does not work. And that's not to mention your previous thread where you pretty much advocated taking out the grinding from Field Operation (namely from the upcoming one), a kind of content that is pretty much about grinding.

I went through it because I wanted to experience the story. And I'm glad I did because there was a lot of it and lore behind it all, and the endgame instances were actually some of the best creative midcore content we've had (especially CLL and Dalriada). Why do I have to trudge through all that leveling tedium to get to the meat of the content? Make the leveling interesting, I say.

Those Bozjan raids were nowhere near midcore content because:
1. They really weren't any harder than Nier or Ivalice (on release) or any more unique. CLL and Dalriada were flexible ARs but still ARs. Only raid that was actually unique was Delubrum Reginae Savage due to the penalty system and the fact you actually had to plan around the core system in Bozja, which was the holster. It was both a test of preparation and execution and the only reason it wasn't more popular was because the amount of players needed and the rewards obtained were not proportionate to each other for repeated runs.
2. Even taking difficulty into account, the whole point of midcore and hardcore gaming is about player's commitment. Ultimates aren't hardcore because they're hard but because you have to spends hours and hours to get the dancing learnt. Bozja was good midcore content because you could spend hours commiting to many objectives, it being getting the permanent buffs, the relics, the mounts, the duel titles, the earrings, the glamours among them. And you could tackle them on with many different options, as Lost Actions and Essence can enable any of the classes and even change the flow of the rotation. And if you're only there for the story, that means you're only looking for a one-and-done deal, just like MSQ. What about that is even midcore?

What does "broader audience" even means? More popular? Reaching out as many people as possible with the risk of diluting gameplay quality? But what is there even to dilute in the first place there?

It shouldn't need explanation but the broader audience here speaks about trying to make the people who didn't like Field Operations, who are but a fraction of the community. And what did those players not like about Field Operations? Grinding. Meaning that in order to appease to those you would have to take away what this kind of content is built upon. Which is a nonsensical idea that isn't even guaranteed to please more people.

[Valence]

Notoriety came a little late unfortunately for me. It definitely seemed to help a little, although fact remained that when the content was current, everybody was still running CEs everywhere to progress, farm or whatever they were doing, and thus qualifying for duels. You had one person being picked over 20+, which meant that the rest of those all got notoriety increases anyway and you were still left competing with them. Fact of the matter remains that the amount of duels was extremely low, but perhaps the design was supposed to make it so that not everybody could access them and thus make them more prestigious. I was never hellbent into getting to clear them, and I do feel that at the core they were a very interesting idea, unfortunately far from filling the actual content people went through the area though. Just a skill/luck little bonus to chase for.

On bunnies according to a reddit thread someone had a 16% rate for gold chests with bunnies, and the correct logograms weren't guaranteed from those either (I got a handful of them without what I was looking for). Seeing that you also had to fight with a hundred of people at times, for maybe a tenth of a chance to actually get a bunny, let's just say that the final odds were not good at all. Ludicrously low. Guess I was unlucky, but that's the crux of the problem to me. Some people made millions out of it while others like me had to spend those.

Define midcore however you like then. You perfectly know what I mean. Also, if you're telling me that CLL at release was on the level of mere ARs, then I'd have to disagree. The first runs all wiped for a while until the groups I got into progressively figured out the first boss and this alone took many runs. Then clearing the whole actual instance, with the last two bosses? Yeah, wasn't done in a single attempt either. Once on farm? Yeah, perhaps closer to ARs for sure and I'd assume that the difference was mostly in the discovery and overcoming the content first since it was actually very new and different. Rename it anything else, rename it into casual for all I care. It was still great content and that was my point. I don't even know why you're trying to argue about midcore. If you define casual, softcore, midcore, hardcore or whatever alongside a metric of time, then sure, works for me. I've heard many other definitions that don't conform to that metric, and they also do work for me. Ultimately this is very hollow, and splitting hair instead of actually discussing the meaning behind which should have been quite obvious: people have been claiming for a long time now that there is little bridges in content, or at least no real pve content for non raiders coming in major patches. This isn't me saying that, it's a metric ton of people (you just have to read threads everywhere, read media articles, everybody talks about it especially with EW and DT).

Note on "I was there for the story": CLL and whatnot had not been advertised at all, and if they had, then I missed it. I went in because there was potentially a story. Because the whole shebang starts with a quest that's not just a NPC telling you "ok that's unlocked go have fun now". Because the whole leveling process only had the story to keep me going and unlike Eureka which had things only at the very closure (last quest), Bozja had a lot of story every level inside which was actually good. Because I was curious to try it out as well, who knows? How can you tell you don't like something if you don't even try it out? If there is other types of pve content inside to actually enjoy for me, then you can bet I'll enjoy them and I did to a degree with CLL and others once I got access to those. Are you trying to mislabel me as a "msq only player" or what? That argument is just disingenuous. I'm a bit sick to be told to go look elsewhere if I don't like part of the content. That's a big part of the problem also ain't it? There is no way to completely make up your mind on exploratory areas every time because you won't know until you have tried everything inside, and this includes its endgame. I've played through Diadem, Eureka, and Bozja, and I can safely say that they had very problematic parts to all of them to different degrees, but not everything was. They had good ideas here and there. Who's to tell what the next is going to hold this time? I think you're a little too quick to jump to conclusions and make blanket statements about people.

"But a fraction of the community"? Do you have numbers to back that up? I honestly don't have any and I'd be interested if some people do, actually. And then, how do you even tell between the people that got avid fans of it, people that just enjoyed it casually, people that only liked parts of it like me, or people that just hated everything inside?

Then why are you getting involved in discussion about a matter you're not even interested in to begin with? The logical discourse would be for people who engage in this kind of content fully, since those are the ones who would get the gist of what does and what does not work. And that's not to mention your previous thread where you pretty much advocated taking out the grinding from Field Operation (namely from the upcoming one), a kind of content that is pretty much about grinding.

So you're telling me to disengage and stop playing if I don't like things, but only people that do engage "fully" into this type of content should have the right to talk about what does work and what doesn't? Do you see the contradiction in this statement? And that's not even without talking about my own experience inside: as said above, I have "fully" engaged into Diadem, Eureka and Bozja, all at release. I know what I'm talking about, if that's your worry. I just happen to hold a different opinion about it than you do.

I'd also be interested to know where you got that I wanted all the grinding out of FOs? I am pretty sure that the only thing I have always advocated for was to make the base grinding content ENGAGING.

I'll give it to you though that I got completely carried away with this thread, and since this is about people enjoying the content and sharing their experiences, I shouldn't have said anything out of respect.

[AmiableApkallu]

I'd also be interested to know where you got that I wanted all the grinding out of FOs? I am pretty sure that the only thing I have always advocated for was to make the base grinding content ENGAGING.

Which would entail what, exactly?

I'll give it to you though that I got completely carried away with this thread, and since this is about people enjoying the content and sharing their experiences, I shouldn't have said anything out of respect.

You're not the only person in this thread to have chimed in with a criticism or two, but "Fates are interesting? This post depresses me more than anything" isn't exactly a constructive, opening salvo.