Quote Originally Posted by Sinstrel View Post
At this point if Dawntrail says anything about the direction of the game, anything can happen and you shouldn't take whatever lore we got previously too seriously.
Literally nothing in this thread is talking about Dawntrail. Papa Gruff was from earlier events and has been around for a fair while, Philcox is just an extension of his whole bit.

I know you just want to throw stones and scream 'Dawntrail Bad' in a way that's both completely uninteresting and not even all that accurate, but you're not even throwing stones at the right house, Zero and Gruff are Endwalker creations.