The Raise Tax, and how to address it.

[Valence]

I wish ranged physical had a raise to justify the tax.

[Jamini]

Fun fact, did you know that DNC and MCH are a (small) loss for party -wide damage in the current patch on average...even accounting for the 1% buff they bring by existing?

Bard is very very slightly ahead of bringing a melee, Black Mage, Or Pictomancer.

The damage is so little of a difference that it doesn't matter, ultimately, and no content has a damage check worth noting... But even so Physical Range jobs are in a really terrible state.

[Valence]

Same story than it has been since ShB. In ShB BRD was behind by over 10% for the first tier. In EW and DT it's MCH with 12-14%.

What is the reason behind this repeating itself until they rebuff them for x.1 and the second tier later as they have done every time? idk

[Raven2014]

Often time in these kind of topic I think people just miss the point. And it's probably due to the min/max mindset that people try come up with all different angle and logic to justify the "I should be able to do more damage!!", which is what it always come down to. And it's not just the raise tax, but the range tax, the melee tax .etc


For me it's simple if you just view it as a point buy system. Every job has the same point in the pool, and it doesn't matter what you put the point, a point more put into one area (raise, mobility) is a point less you can point less you can put in another area (DPS). It doesn't matter you think that point is well spent or not, it doesn't change the fact it's a point that spent there and you can't spent at other places. It's like if you build a DnD Paladin and decide to put a few points in INT since you don't want to be stupid, but a smart PLD naturally gonna has less STR or CHR and that fact won't change no matter how much you want to argue a Paladin should not have low CHR.

[mallleable]

For RDM specifically, I think that Verraise is constricting its design space both as a specialist support job, and as a DPS job. I think I would rather they replace Verraise with with something that is more of a general use support GCD like Vermedica or Verstoneskin or something, and then buff its damage a little more. I'm a little unsure how healthy it is for RDM's identity in the long term to be pigeonholed as 'rezmage.'

As for SMN, I think it has some grounds to keep its rez, and it's only because it can summon Phoenix, the rebirth primal. I think they could rework Phoenix to be a cooldown that is separate from its damage rotation, and make rez available when it's summoned. Summon Phoenix could be like this turbocharged Phoenix Down ability, as well as setting the precedent that summons have meaning.

[Kes13a]

For RDM specifically, I think that Verraise is constricting its design space both as a specialist support job, and as a DPS job. I think I would rather they replace Verraise with with something that is more of a general use support GCD like Vermedica or Verstoneskin or something, and then buff its damage a little more. I'm a little unsure how healthy it is for RDM's identity in the long term to be pigeonholed as 'rezmage.'

As for SMN, I think it has some grounds to keep its rez, and it's only because it can summon Phoenix, the rebirth primal. I think they could rework Phoenix to be a cooldown that is separate from its damage rotation, and make rez available when it's summoned. Summon Phoenix could be like this turbocharged Phoenix Down ability, as well as setting the precedent that summons have meaning.

I doubt that SE gives a damn about "precedence". where is the "precedence" for War having an AOE heal?

[mallleable]

I doubt that SE gives a damn about "precedence". where is the "precedence" for War having an AOE heal?

Gonna be a broken record about PVP jobs again, but PVP SMN has a choice of two limit breaks, Summon Bahamut, and Summon Phoenix, and they have different uses with Bahamut being a damage summon, and Phoenix being more of a support summon. Even the the more on demand actions which are based on the the primal actions that PVE SMN preforms have different effects, and gameplay considerations. So the idea of having a choice between summons, and those choices mattering for SMN does seem to be on their radar, but why this isn't being explored in PVE is another story. These ideas are in the game right now.

[Supersnow845]

Often time in these kind of topic I think people just miss the point. And it's probably due to the min/max mindset that people try come up with all different angle and logic to justify the "I should be able to do more damage!!", which is what it always come down to. And it's not just the raise tax, but the range tax, the melee tax .etc


For me it's simple if you just view it as a point buy system. Every job has the same point in the pool, and it doesn't matter what you put the point, a point more put into one area (raise, mobility) is a point less you can point less you can put in another area (DPS). It doesn't matter you think that point is well spent or not, it doesn't change the fact it's a point that spent there and you can't spent at other places. It's like if you build a DnD Paladin and decide to put a few points in INT since you don't want to be stupid, but a smart PLD naturally gonna has less STR or CHR and that fact won't change no matter how much you want to argue a Paladin should not have low CHR.

This whole “everyone gets points but you don’t have to agree with if they are spent fairly” argument implies that everyone’s “utility” is getting taxed as number of points. If phys ranged have to suffer 10-15% as a damage penalty for their ranged why is VPR not taxed the same, hell why is ranged as a concept even taxed when the melees can drop dozens of GCD’s and still out DPS the ranged. Same as the tanks vs healers. What did the healers “buy” with their 40% less damage than the tanks when the tanks can heal with no penalty

This isn’t hush people unhappy with the allocation of points for their class this is a mathematical imbalance that isn’t remotely justified because it’s intentional balance decisions they force on the classes while providing no justification

[Ayden]

My idea is to make Resurrection a caster's role ability. Lore doesn't matter at all.

Resurrection
Lv50 Instant GCD
Recast: 120 seconds

This will equalize all casters in term of raise tax. Job mechanics and playstyles will be what separate caster jobs, just like all other roles. The current 3k DPS difference between rdm/smn and blm/pct is just too much. This change addresses the current disparity in DPS contributions, fostering a more balanced environment where players can choose their preferred caster without feeling pressured to switch jobs post-progression.

[Supersnow845]

My idea is to make Resurrection a caster's role ability. Lore doesn't matter at all.

Resurrection
Lv50 Instant GCD
Recast: 120 seconds

This will equalize all casters in term of raise tax. Job mechanics and playstyles will be what separate caster jobs, just like all other roles. The current 3k DPS difference between rdm/smn and blm/pct is just too much. This change addresses the current disparity in DPS contributions, fostering a more balanced environment where players can choose their preferred caster without feeling pressured to switch jobs post-progression.

That’s something I don’t want because when I play BLM or PCT I don’t want to be the backup support. I already hate how this game forces all healers to be casters and all tanks to be melee I don’t want all 8 casters to be raisers. Let some of the casters just be raw damage dealers and give them the damage to reflect that. You shouldn’t be forced to be a melee just to do good damage in this game

RDM and SMN are excessively taxed for their raise but raise provides an interesting point of difference amongst the casters. What needs to go is the soft enforced 2/1/1 design