The Raise Tax, and how to address it.

[NoOneofConsequence]

So Far: Not Good Idea lol! It happens!
Thinking on some of it, reconsidered my position. =]

Thread is essentially closed.

[Angeldust]

why do people find it an issue, i will never understand it cost a ton of mp for them, to use and it drops their dps alot its mostly only there as a last resort when both healers are dead... there are a bit more issues than dps having rez, the ressuractions isnt the proplem its the over healing on hp thats the proplem, and the only caster with that issue is rdm with vercure, not verraise.



want healer rez to matter more, make them have 0 weakness when used and rez a player at 70% hp instead of base amount

[CuteBucket]

Ehh...

If I'm playing RDM or SMN, I'm already taking a DPS hit to raise someone. Even with using Dualcast or Swiftcast, that's a full GCD of no DPS, and if for whatever reason I can't use those abilities, then it's way longer cast that takes 4 GCDs and a ton of MP. Sure, it would be nice if those classes did more DPS, but too much of a raise tax will make players not want to use the raise ability at all. I dunno, I just don't see a problem with the way it currently is, but I've never cared about playing "top DPS" jobs. I just play to have fun and get the clear.

[NoOneofConsequence]

The idea came from a player I recall talking about how they would Prog as a RDM due to being able to raise so well in order to see more mechanics and thus making the RDM a Prog Mage, and then when they were ready to clear, they would switch to BLM or a strong DPS class in order to push the clear.

But if it's a bad idea, its a bad idea lol. :-P Such is life.

[SalamanderIX]

The raise tax does or doesn't exist, that is to say the raise tax is more of a suggestion than a fact. Many times Summoner and or Red Mage did more damage than other DPS jobs, including Black Mage. They currently are not the worst DPS in the game.
Anyway, I don't think this game is going to improve by taking away or lowering utility away from jobs so they could in theory (if they balanced damage perfectly) all do exactly the same DPS. All it does is take identity away from these jobs. Especially Red Mage, one of the core reasons this job is valued is for its raising ability.

Every jobs DPS is good right now but we're getting to hear how there's a problem with DPS. Why are people getting so fixated on the funny numbers site, with numbers driven by speed runners? And what has been demanding balance changes based on speed running got us? The 2 minute meta, abilities being designed for burst, less utility and choices, more homogenization. Maybe we should just not talk about dps being a problem unless a job is actually having trouble clearing content.

[NoOneofConsequence]

Every jobs DPS is good right now but we're getting to hear how there's a problem with DPS. Why are people getting so fixated on the funny numbers site, with numbers driven by speed runners? And what has been demanding balance changes based on speed running got us? The 2 minute meta, abilities being designed for burst, less utility and choices, more homogenization. Maybe we should just not talk about dps being a problem unless a job is actually having trouble clearing content.

That idea escaped me for the moment, thanks for the feedback <3
Definitely do not want to suggest optimizing fun out of the game as that is not my intention.

[Valence]

You don't need to look at the website that makes yoshida sad to notice that even with your keyboard literally on fire you're 6th in aggro coughing blood because your dps job has a garbage mathematical cap.

[Supersnow845]

The raise tax does or doesn't exist, that is to say the raise tax is more of a suggestion than a fact. Many times Summoner and or Red Mage did more damage than other DPS jobs, including Black Mage. They currently are not the worst DPS in the game.
Anyway, I don't think this game is going to improve by taking away or lowering utility away from jobs so they could in theory (if they balanced damage perfectly) all do exactly the same DPS. All it does is take identity away from these jobs. Especially Red Mage, one of the core reasons this job is valued is for its raising ability.

Every jobs DPS is good right now but we're getting to hear how there's a problem with DPS. Why are people getting so fixated on the funny numbers site, with numbers driven by speed runners? And what has been demanding balance changes based on speed running got us? The 2 minute meta, abilities being designed for burst, less utility and choices, more homogenization. Maybe we should just not talk about dps being a problem unless a job is actually having trouble clearing content.

Right now statistically the average melee or non raise caster is putting out just shy of enough damage to overcome the 1% the physical ranged bring

If that threshold gets crossed then you are actually losing DPS to bring a physical ranged; that’s a serious balance Concern because if the physical ranged don’t have the protection of bringing the 1% they are just fighting for a spot with classes that do 15% more damage than they do. That’s not an issue of homogenisation that’s an issue of when nobody is allowed to have any utility besides damage artificially taxing classes on their damage leads to them struggling to justify their existence

The raise casters are in the same position when a party doesn’t need a raise that can’t be covered by a healer but they are technically worse because you can just sub them out for a PCT and not even lose the 1%

If a class is getting excessively taxed for “utility” that doesn’t justify the tax that should be fixed even if other party members can “compensate” for their lower DPS so they can still clear

[PercibelTheren]

I think the very existence of the Raise tax is stupid. You're already missing out on damage by virtue of missing some GCDs. If Mana management actually mattered, that would also be a limiting factor. Right now, it is only limiting if you are having to Raise a lot. Jobs with lots of utility being punished for said utility with less damage output just has the consequence that they are basically prog-only job, especially Red Mage. Once you learn the fight and don't need the Rez, you are better off with something like a Pictomancer every time.

[CKNovel]

The raise tax indeed makes no sense.
Back in Pandemonium we had too many body check, TOP also straight up caused a wipe if someone got KO'd
In no world the res tax is of any value, even if you have your 2 healers KO, their heals would be nerfed for a little while.

The KO'd player should be the one paying the tax, not the casters.
Make the KO debuff last longer if a caster ressed or limit the number of res.