Dark Knight Changes - Suggestion.

[Valence]

The whole point of TBN skill expression is to have it tied to MP costs on a relatively low CD (15s). Remove this and you'll lower the last tank still having a modicum of skill expression down to the level of the rest. Other tanks used to have some form of defensive skill expression as well but lost it in EW, notably in dungeons (ironically, because even savage/ultimate does not challenge tank defensive gameplay but just asks to pop cooldowns when a buster happens, which is sad in a way that the purest form of defensive skill expression can or used to actually be found in dungeon trash packs, but that's a whole tangent). Current DRK is the only remnant of an older model that still has some meat left from the older battle system, and butchering this just because other braindead tanks fare better with godmode tools would be frankly sad.

If anything, the jank is that Dark Arts is tied to TBN breaking, where it should have stayed a toolkit mechanic on its own closer to what it used to do.

[RinaB]

Unfortunately they're not gonna change anything. That's pretty obvious with DT. The 2 jobs that got the most similar changes are RPR and DRK..."they do the same thing but look cooler guys!" DRK is playable but my god oblation is dogshit and anyone who defends it is either on drugs or coping hard. Tbn is awful. In shb tbn was OP because of damage scaling. In DT, if they want to keep the damage it needs to be 30 or 35% because for a 3000 mana cd it's better to just pop reprisal and rampart.

[AnjouMaaka]

Heh. Oh how the deranged maneuver themselves into dead ends when they get triggered. Heh.

Well, I knew you were just trolling before that post, if we're being honest. Didn't need you to so openly admit you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. But thanks for finally admitting it, I suppose.

I main tank. It's not hard to understand how tanking works. Know your cooldowns. It's that simple. The fact you think TBN is a mitigation shows you don't know your tank cooldowns. It is a shield, and only a shield, and shields are not mitigation. Shields are effective HP that can extend past your max HP. If you take a tankbuster that exceeds the extra effective HP TBN gives you because you failed to use actual mitigation, you are still going to be in the grave. The priority system for cooldown usage is mitigation > shield > healing. If you can't understand such basic and simple concepts, I fail to see how that constitutes me being a troll. Try learning your cooldowns before making such ignorant hot takes that make others question whether you talk to your parents like you know better than they do.

Sorry to chime in but where have healers asked for such a thing? Like, actually asked consistently, not some random voice you read once in your life?
Casters have been pretty allergic to combo proposals for their jobs as far as I've been able to tell, be them DPS or healers. The consistent ideas I keep seeing cropping up on the healer side have been procs (rng or not rng) of various kinds and dot management.

There is a reason people are dissatisfied with base combos that don't even branch. They bring too little (if even) to the gameplay of their classes. You who seem to be eager to quote the bald man, he was among the ones saying combos could be condensed into pvp combos to make room for more interesting tools.

Chiming in is perfectly fine so there's nothing to be sorry for. I have not seen Xenos mention that (probably missed the video and never saw it in recommendations), but the OP was asking for this without providing much reason as to why. If it is to make room for more interesting tools, then that could work. Unfortunately, being bored of the tank 1-2-3 is really just a sign of a short attention span. Not everyone has that problem.

As for healers asking to have a 1-2-3 combo, from what I have seen, it has been mostly long time healers that also want cleric stance to return. They all griped about cleric stance, SE took it away, and then they want it back because "we're bored." Here in Texas we call that "shooting the gift horse in the mouth."

[Supersnow845]

I main tank. It's not hard to understand how tanking works. Know your cooldowns. It's that simple. The fact you think TBN is a mitigation shows you don't know your tank cooldowns. It is a shield, and only a shield, and shields are not mitigation. Shields are effective HP that can extend past your max HP. If you take a tankbuster that exceeds the extra effective HP TBN gives you because you failed to use actual mitigation, you are still going to be in the grave. The priority system for cooldown usage is mitigation > shield > healing. If you can't understand such basic and simple concepts, I fail to see how that constitutes me being a troll. Try learning your cooldowns before making such ignorant hot takes that make others question whether you talk to your parents like you know better than they do.



Chiming in is perfectly fine so there's nothing to be sorry for. I have not seen Xenos mention that (probably missed the video and never saw it in recommendations), but the OP was asking for this without providing much reason as to why. If it is to make room for more interesting tools, then that could work. Unfortunately, being bored of the tank 1-2-3 is really just a sign of a short attention span. Not everyone has that problem.

As for healers asking to have a 1-2-3 combo, from what I have seen, it has been mostly long time healers that also want cleric stance to return. They all griped about cleric stance, SE took it away, and then they want it back because "we're bored." Here in Texas we call that "shooting the gift horse in the mouth."

Genuine question that I would like explained since you seem to like randomly saying stuff without really understanding what’s going on behind it

Why is the priority system apparently mitigation>shielding>healing

Explain that to me because that’s 100% not the priority system I would use if I’m in the position where I can freely access both a shield and a mitigation. Also in this system where does true eHP fall

[Valence]

Unfortunately, being bored of the tank 1-2-3 is really just a sign of a short attention span. Not everyone has that problem.

Ah, that must surely mean I have a short attention span. A true pandemic in the game.

[AnjouMaaka]

Why is the priority system apparently mitigation>shielding>healing? Also in this system where does true eHP fall

Now you are asking the right questions. As I said before, if you use only TBN on a buster that exceeds the extra eHP provided by TBN, you're pretty much just dead. Mitigation is usually the better option to apply first. When you take a tankbuster there are 3 parts to the buster. Before the buster, the buster itself, and after. As a tank we usually don't worry about after the buster (that's exclusive to warrior.) If you apply Shadowed Vigil, by itself it is roughly 2-3 times the value you get from TBN on just what it mitigates, and often you don't need TBN if you use Shadowed Vigil. However, if we were to use Oblation instead, (trading 40% for 10%) that provides slightly less than just TBN.

Let's say your max HP is 200k and the buster is going to do 300k. TBN is only going to give you a 50k shield, so you're going to have to add in actual mitigations (buttons that reduce the amount of damage received) to survive the buster. At that number, Oblation alone would still only mitigate about 30k, and you'll be overkilled by 20k. If you use Shadowed Vigil instead, you're going to mitigate 120k (40% of 300k) and take a total of 180k (300k - 120k). TBN will then come into play as an additional 50k eHP, resulting in your post-cooldown damage received being 130k.

You need both enough eHP and enough mitigation to survive the buster. It's important to separate the two types of cooldowns because some mitigations are better than having just the shield, and some are worse. It depends on the mitigation you are using. The reason people think TBN is a mitigation is because of the 10% mits being less valuable than TBN in instances where it's the only cooldown that's used, and so they take the stance of "it mitigates 25% damage" when all it really does is provide an additional 25% eHP without reducing any of the damage received. The reason we prioritize the mitigation is because in the event of a tankbuster that exceeds your max HP, you definitely want enough mitigation before applying TBN, because FFXIV has terrible netcode, and TBN only lasts 7s. If you apply TBN first, you could accidentally use it too early and it will fall off before taking the buster. If you apply it too late, it may not register that TBN was applied before you received the buster. It's better to apply TBN last because your mitigations last longer, making it easier to time those correctly, and having enough mitigation without TBN will allow you to survive just the buster. Doing it this way saves you from surviving the buster, but not the 50k boss auto that follows.

eHP comes into play as the final part of damage calculation. After mitigations are applied, your max HP + any shields add up to be your eHP. Healing is normally an "after the buster" mechanic. The only time this changes is multi-hit busters like Akh Morn.

[Supersnow845]

There is nothing in there that actually indicates a form of desirable hard priority rather just saying “if you add the shield to your HP it may not be enough” which is the same as applying a mitigation. If you can survive by a mitigation or by a shield why would you use the shield mitigation first. If you need both the. There is no priority system other than just making sure both are present during the application process. And when I said true eHP I meant thrill, nebula and protraction, as in neither shields nor mitigation

So overall if you can use either why prioritise mitigation, if you need both then it’s not a priority system, that’s the question I’m asking because to me it seems like there is no real reason for your “priority” system

[AnjouMaaka]

Ah, that must surely mean I have a short attention span. A true pandemic in the game.

I did not intend for that to be a personal attack. For some people, it's just a trait and not a problem. It's not like it's something anyone can really change about themselves

[AnjouMaaka]

There is nothing in there that actually indicates a form of desirable hard priority rather just saying “if you add the shield to your HP it may not be enough” which is the same as applying a mitigation. If you can survive by a mitigation or by a shield why would you use the shield mitigation first. If you need both the. There is no priority system other than just making sure both are present during the application process. And when I said true eHP I meant thrill, nebula and protraction, as in neither shields nor mitigation

So overall if you can use either why prioritise mitigation, if you need both then it’s not a priority system, that’s the question I’m asking because to me it seems like there is no real reason for your “priority” system

The main reason is the netcode being absolute garbage. If the netcode was significantly better than it currently is, then you are right, and the only priority system you would have is applying shorter cooldowns last for being shorter cooldowns. But it is still important to separate shields from mitigation and healing, because all 3 work differently from each other, even if the goal they achieve is the same. Most tanks don't even worry about this now because they merged all 3 into a single cooldown. Dark knight got left out of that club, and it just no longer makes sense for them to be exempt from the cool kids table, imo. I think back in Heavenward and Stormblood all tanks had this stuff sort of separated, and so this priority system was far more relevant than it is now, and Dark knight is the only job that still has to adhere to it to some extent. I'm not a master class on the role cause I haven't played since 1.0 like Xenos has. But, I know enough to understand why he separates all 3 types of cooldowns.

Using the priorities I listed can help you be a more effective tank. Is it overkill for the current iterations of tank jobs? Probably. But, better to have a priority system for choosing your defensive cooldowns than to just press your buttons because they all achieve the same goal.

[AnjouMaaka]

Also, I didn't mention abilities like Thrill of Battle because they are far closer to what a shield does than a shield being close to what a mitigation does. They boost your eHP like a shield does. This can actually be combined with shields like TBN for a stronger shield because of that shield being %maxHP based instead of a flat potency.