Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Khryseis_Astra]

TBH, I'm more concerned about Thancred's eye color changing for no given reason after Heavensward, but that doesn't have anything to do with the graphics update. I'd really, really like to know why his white (presumably blind?) eye changed back when Y'shtola's didn't! I did go back and look at HW Thancred and he looks pretty rough, but before and after he doesn't look so different to me that it gives me pause. A little younger, maybe, but that could be chalked up to the shave, bath, and losing the tan.

IIRC the in-game reason is that he wasn’t stuck in the Lifestream as long as Y’shtola was, so he didn’t have the same problems as she did. He got to keep his sight, but lost the ability to manipulate aether. (Not sure if the fact that she was a caster and he wasn’t could have played a role in that as well…)

That said, his face is totally different, coming from someone who had a fangirl crush on him for the longest time! The worst (as shown in the helpful gif posted this morning ) is the eyes and mouth being completely different shapes, but even the nose/bridge of the nose is off. I notice a more prominent nose bridge on Lalas too.

Faces are a collection of features… tweak any one of them too much and things look off. Tweak all of them without regard for the actual shapes of the original, and they’re just completely different people. I’ve started saying that my current Hyur could be a cousin to the original, but they’re not even close enough to look like sisters!

[Astronis]

I can't say that I agree with you.

That's fine.

Sibold's facial expression changed entirely; instead of a stern young man, I see a constantly smiling person, which (imo) distorts the message of the story.

Interesting, since I always interpreted Sicard to have a frequent self-satisfied smirk. Perhaps that's why my opinion hasn't changed much--I previously saw him as character that frequently smiles. Subjective opinions be subjective!

I assumed they just hadn't been touched by SE designers yet when I was going through the story on my alt about a month ago.

Very possible. Continuing adjustments to eyelashes notwitstanding, they have said the graphics update would be an expansion-long process.

IIRC the in-game reason is that he wasn’t stuck in the Lifestream as long as Y’shtola was, so he didn’t have the same problems as she did. He got to keep his sight, but lost the ability to manipulate aether. (Not sure if the fact that she was a caster and he wasn’t could have played a role in that as well…)

I'd love to see where this was pointed out in game. It's bugged me for ages and I apparently missed it both times I played through. I knew about him losing his aether manipulating ability, but not where he regained the color in his eye.

Regarding his appearance, I know it's a bit different, but I'm on record as viewing the graphics as an artistic interpretation of a 'Platonic ideal', so he's still well within artistic parameters of 'Thancred' so therefore I still recognize him as such.

[Turnintino]

I'd love to see where this was pointed out in game.

I don't believe they ever explicitly theorize (in the MSQ, at least) that he was less affected because of less time spent in the lifestream; it's just subtext. But I don't know if I'd argue his disability isn't equal to Y'shtola's to begin with, personally. They certainly both ended up not mattering equally, but I digress.

(And I agree that the eye color thing was bizarre too; not to mention that he wore what was basically a makeshift eyepatch over it for two expansions that one would think meant he maybe couldn't see out of it, but here we are. Maybe he was temporarily blind in that eye, but we weren't told in-game, either way.)

As for his face, I don't particularly care about Thancred himself either, but the differences shown still serve to highlight how Face 1 was changed.

[Khryseis_Astra]

(And I agree that the eye color thing was bizarre too; not to mention that he wore what was basically a makeshift eyepatch over it for two expansions that one would think meant he maybe couldn't see out of it, but here we are. Maybe he was temporarily blind in that eye, but we weren't told in-game, either way.)

It’s going to drive me crazy now because I could’ve swore they said something about it… I know Thancred makes references to the eye patch at some point, something along the lines of “I don’t really need it anymore, but chicks think it’s cool.” lol But I found a comment saying that at FanFest 2021, Ishikawa said that Thancred’s eye injury in Dravania was temporary and never meant to affect his eyesight.

As you say though, it’s a perfect illustration of how bad Hyurs got worked over.

[Argantaelle]

[part 1/2]

It's kind of more a philosophical question, and it's quite difficult for me to write lengthy posts in English, so I'll try to be as concise as possible.

Warning! The wall of text crits you for 9999! (Also SB and SHB spoilers ahead.)

When I was watching one of FFXIV fanfests, I saw a woman. She had a very interesting job in the FFXIV department: she was creating NPC outfits. Why is this job important? Because in the story even minor details (like clothing) are used to convey a certain idea or create a background for a character without telling about it directly. Why are Gaius reborn, Severa, and Valdeaulin dressed like they are? To show a player that even if they are going through troublesome times and not shy about violence (tattered coats and weapons on their backs), they are civilised people, which were pulled out of their civil background and forced to do what they are doing (dress pants and some kind of Chelsea boots).

Faces are far more important than boots. In human culture, certain facial features have specific meanings depending on cultural stereotypes (blond hair, red hair, narrow nose bridge, wide nose bridge, full lips, thin lips, etc.). Even making colours of a face less or more contrasting creates a difference in their personality (the more contrasting the colours are, the more straight lines in features are present, the more determined a person looks). When a new NPC is created, all of the above is taken into consideration. Also, that's why RPGs (MMORPGs included) have character creation tools with features different from regular cute or handsome face parts, so a player could make a character with a certain background to express a certain idea. (Face reading doesn't work with the real people, of course, but plays a very important part in storytelling.)

If you look at the "old" Thancred, what facial features do we see? Regular cheekbones, a prominent chin (often associated with determination), a wider tip of the nose compared to the narrow bridge (indicating his low birth, because narrow noses with a high nose bridge are considered more aristocratic and attractive), full lips (they are often associated with hedonism), tanned skin, bright high-contrast eyes, and darker eyebrows forming almost a straight line (once again, these features help to emphasise his energy and determination). Considering all the above, what person do we see here? Someone who is not afraid of the sun, who leads an active life and enjoys the pleasures life offers. He is of a questionable background (probably from the lowest of the low), but is attractive (roguish charm), and rose from the bottom due to the strength of his character. It pretty much corresponds with Thancred's story, right?

[Argantaelle]

[part 2/2]

But the "new" Thancred conveys a different message. All ties with his low background (as the wide nose, round face, and tan) are lost; his skin is pale, and the shadows under his eyes indicate that he spends most of the time indoors (probably reading or playing videogames, lol). His lips are thin, his chin is less prominent, and his face got wider cheekbones and became less rounded. All these features convey a different message of a person with a different background. Instead of a charming rogue with rough features and determined personality, we see a refined nobleman who seems to be less energetic and more calm.

As I have already said, I don't mind differences, as long as they allow to convey the same idea. But unfortunately they don't. This is one of the examples I've posted before. All Au Ra male face 2 eyebrows are different shades of angry now; the two more or less neutral options (2 and 5) are gone; they don't exist anymore. It's not a problem if your initial intention was to make a regular Au Ra edgelord, but it is a problem if you wanted to create a different person.

I want to thank everyone who managed to get to the end of this very long post

[Turethir]

I want to thank everyone who managed to get to the end of this very long post

Thank you so much Argantaelle As a huge Thancred fan (he's my favourite character) I felt genuinely touched by your words! As Khryseis_Astra said, there's so many little things that have been changed about him that he looks like a different person. Still sort of recognisable as the same character, but off, almost like an uncanny version of him, a Ship of Theseus in a way. As soon as I see a picture of the old Thancred, I can immediately see the difference.

For people who might not care as much for Thancred, it might not be a huge deal, but when you love a character this much it really hurts

I can only desperately hope that they revert him to his SHB appearance and rig the model up for 7.0. I know it can be done, and I'll keep fighting for him as I know it means a lot to me and a lot of other people.

[Hatsuoki]

Thank you so much Argantaelle As a huge Thancred fan (he's my favourite character) I felt genuinely touched by your words! As Khryseis_Astra said, there's so many little things that have been changed about him that he looks like a different person. Still sort of recognisable as the same character, but off, almost like an uncanny version of him, a Ship of Theseus in a way. As soon as I see a picture of the old Thancred, I can immediately see the difference.

For people who might not care as much for Thancred, it might not be a huge deal, but when you love a character this much it really hurts

I can only desperately hope that they revert him to his SHB appearance and rig the model up for 7.0. I know it can be done, and I'll keep fighting for him as I know it means a lot to me and a lot of other people.

I've also talked about the same thing here for Hancock and much more often in private since he's not as popular but it's like all personality and background was wiped away. He no longer has the thin, pursed lips with a slight, cruel expression, doesn't have dark under eye circles so he doesn't look as tired, and he's slightly more bulky, as if he wasn't malnourished as a child. Speaking generally though, characters were more likely to have been designed with these physical characteristics to match their personalities and backgrounds and not designed with the intent of the "original data" that they claim to be more accurate. Regardless of how accurate the models now match the original data, I just don't think that's what the character designers were working off of.

[Doopliss]

Speaking generally though, characters were more likely to have been designed with these physical characteristics to match their personalities and backgrounds and not designed with the intent of the "original data" that they claim to be more accurate. Regardless of how accurate the models now match the original data, I just don't think that's what the character designers were working off of.

God, dude, I know we don't have "proof" one way or another, but...you're definitely right. It just doesn't make sense otherwise.

They 100% did not design any characters with the intent of the "original data" they reference in the PR-ridden lodestone response. As any good character designer would do, they used and made the best out of the limitations and tools they were given. Their eyes are no different from ours, and they definitely weren't designing characters with the thoughts of them having a different impression in the future. That would just be...insane? And bad character designing. I just can't, in good faith, believe anyone who would think otherwise.

There's no way that Cirina, with her gentle, airy and sometimes surprising disposition was meant to look so...tired and plastic in comparison to her old, more girlish and slightly less conventional-looking model. Sadu, the fierce, battle-loving Dotharl had her face intentionally made up of all of the sharpest feature options. You're telling me they're actually meant to be this much softer and rounded-out?

I also get sad seeing Margrat--the last custom delivery NPC from Endwalker--now with her sharp, longer and more mature features practically removed. It fit her erratic, nerdy busybody personality super well...and her custom delivery portrait still has the old model. It's weirdly depressing to look at. Now her features are also all rounded out, and a little more...droopy-looking. She lacks the emotion she once had.

[Turnintino]

Bumping to whine about the lighting, because it really is such an eyesore sometimes lol.



For the record, this is with character lighting turned all the way down, and yet he's fully illuminated in a completely shadowed environment, as if cut and paste from another image.