Setting sights on the future of physical ranged DPS

[mallleable]

I want to collect my thoughts, feedback and in-game observations into a thread, and hopefully get some gears turning on the possibilities for the Physical Ranged DPS role.

To start, there are PVP achievements for winning Crystalline Conflict matches as a physical ranged DPS. The achievent for winning 1000 matches as a phys ranged DPS is called "A Sniper to Remember," and the achievements leading up to it are called "A Wolf in Green Tights I-IV" likely as a reference to Robin Hood. This seem like a recent point of view that the developers have about the phys ranged roles like they want the class fantasy to be that of a sharpshooter/marksman/ranger.

Another recent development that has come out of PVP is the mechanic of walking casts. This mechanic is only present on BRD and MCH. Certain actions have cast times, but you can still move while casting at a reduced speed. The mechanic really feels like you are taking the time to aim each shot to maximize damage without it feeling like you are a magical ranged DPS. The physicality of "aiming” versus spell casting feels very different. And because walking casts are affected by abilities that increase movement speed, there could be some interactions with Peloton.

In the melee role quest solo battle in Endwalker, players fight alongside Merlwyb, and Lorens, two characters who use guns. Though out the fight Merlwyb, and Lorens have to interact with positional mechanics along with the player despite them basically being phys ranged DPS characters. However, in the Endwalker phys ranged solo battle, there are no positionals. But in the Dawntrail physical ranged role quest solo battle the player is asked to do postionals, and weirdly enough positionals are not present in the melee solo battle. This entertains the idea making positionals a gameplay mechanic for phys ranged DPS or that it is just a physical damage mechanic which since Shadowbringers, physical ranged, and melee DPS have been lumped together as "Physical DPS" in artifact gear vendors.

To me, the marksman is a missing class archetype in PVE. We have tanks, healers, fighters, and mages that provide mostly unique gameplay styles, and gameplay challenges to overcome, but the marksman is underdeveloped, and basically non-existent. I think walking casts can solve the bulk of gameplay, and balance issues that have been weighing down physical ranged DPS, and they should have been in PVE like yesterday. The biggest issue with walking casts is being able to cancel them, but I’m sure there are solutions to that floating around.

However, I’m skeptical about postionals from personal taste, and because it would mean that phys ranged would be subjected to boss hit box problems like with melee DPS. But despite that I think positionals do sell the idea of aiming at an enemy’s weak points to maximize damage. Maybe phys ranged could only have front positionals because ‘boom! headshot’ or something. Maybe there is a middle ground with walking casts, and positionals. Mechanically, phys ranged DPS feel very isolated from the other roles, and I think some mechanical cross pollination would healthy for the role. I’m willing to compromise.

I’m also skeptical about giving phys ranged more support tools or forcing them to be a support role because I feel like healers are already experiencing power creep as well.

I think devs should be taking inspiration from various shooter games on how to fix this role. I think the role that uses ranged weapons like bows, and guns, and other projectiles, and uses gear labeled ‘aiming’ should have more aiming style mechanics that can be translated over FFXIV’s GCD, and tab target style gameplay. Just simply being able to hit an enemy from afar does not provide enough gameplay. I’m likely just seeing patterns, but I feel like there are a lot of pieces in place to do something pretty cool with physical ranged DPS, and it is the developer’s job to make these decisions.

[Valence]

I don't think your ideal view of the role fits what I like about the game, but perhaps I'm the odd one left behind by a changing design that only cares about uptime/cast times and positionals. If turning rphys into positional casters is the future of the game in pve and alienating all the players that played the role specifically because they weren't interested into those mechanics, then I dread seeing it come true. I'd be curious to see the reaction however, if we'd get a similar riot than we had in HW when cast times were introduced to the role, or not. Perhaps the player base has changed significantly since then.

[mallleable]

I don't think your ideal view of the role fits what I like about the game, but perhaps I'm the odd one left behind by a changing design that only cares about uptime/cast times and positionals. If turning rphys into positional casters is the future of the game in pve and alienating all the players that played the role specifically because they weren't interested into those mechanics, then I dread seeing it come true. I'd be curious to see the reaction however, if we'd get a similar riot than we had in HW when cast times were introduced to the role, or not. Perhaps the player base has changed significantly since then.

I do think that they have gotten better at designing jobs with cast times. Like if 'bow mage' or 'gun mage' were released today, they would play wildly different than they did in HW, and there wouldn't be as much backlash -- if anything there would be complaints that they're too easy play like usual. It probably is just apophenia, but to me the conceptual, and mechanical explorations in PVP, and role quest battles kinda make a little too much sense for the role. They're not even my ideas, I'm just drawing subtext from what's in the game right now.

[CKNovel]

I think with Dancer and Bard they initially aimed for ranged to be the "Proc based" role.
Even Machinist used to have procs.

Only bowmage saw a backlash as it wasn't initially designed with casts in mind, Gunmage felt great.
But yes, currently they're basically "melees without melee range" or "casters with not casts". It would be good to have something exclusive to ranged rather than copying something from another role.

[Carighan]

Procs I would not like because I feel other roles suffer if they keep being beholden to the "static rotation"-style of class design.

That is to say, there absolutely need to be melees, casters, tanks and healers based on random abilities and procs (not the same thing btw). Otherwise we just see the devs run out of design space way too quick. Just look at the 6 melee jobs having maybe 2,5 classes of design space between all of them.

But "bowmage" is interesting as a design. A cast-bar during which you can move, but more slowly. This could be what the physical ranged jobs do, they are fully mobile, but slower while casting, and one could go a step further and say it's never their main rotation that has these, but ~all extra abilities would, basically fully mobile during filler and reducied-mobility during extra casts (the opposite of how most casters work!).

Then further, one could be proc based (which Dancer is not as a design archetype, they're priority based, their procs are a secondary design element that changes surprisingly little in underlying design), one could be priority based which we already have, one could be static in nature.

[Valence]

I've been robbed of my procs and ammo on MCH for.. whatever this underperforming dumpster fire of a job is those days. I want them back.

Also if you want to see how moving very slowly or not moving at all makes zero difference, go try it in pvp. Same thing in pve, you're either fast enough to move out of the bad goo or to the next mechanical position, or you're not.

[mallleable]

The thing is RDM, and MNK have procs in their rotations with Verfire, and Verstone procs, and the chakra gauge filling off weapon skills randomly critting. Randomness is not exclusive to phys ranged. RDM, and yes, SMN have melee attacks as well. SAM, and RPR have weapon skills, and spells with cast times. PLD has spells with cast times, and SGE has melee ranged spells. There is already mechanical intermingling between the roles, except for phys ranged. The phys ranged role is kept isolated for whatever reason. I think that phys ranged could open up, and utilize mechanics from the other roles even if it meant that the physical ranged role became more of a generalist damage role instead of this pseudo kinda vaguely specialist role. It would open up a lot of design space for the role.

I think another aiming style mechanic that could be entertained for phys ranged would be having attacks that that shoot out projectiles that have a travel time, but I'm sure that will be prone to a lot of frustrating latency jank.

[Valence]

Is there a melee with slow walk cast times on its base combo? Is there a caster with positionals? And if deterministic rotations are shared by many roles, does it mean that it was ok for MCH to be deprived of its procs and rng (especially when rng/proc jobs are starting to become an endangered species)?

There is a world of difference between iajutsu/communio and cast times on the base filler but I feel this is restarting a conversation just for the sake of beating up a dead horse.

[mallleable]

Is there a melee with slow walk cast times on its base combo? Is there a caster with positionals? And if deterministic rotations are shared by many roles, does it mean that it was ok for MCH to be deprived of its procs and rng (especially when rng/proc jobs are starting to become an endangered species)?

There is a world of difference between iajutsu/communio and cast times on the base filler but I feel this is restarting a conversation just for the sake of beating up a dead horse.

Blue Mage can learn a spell with a front positional that makes tank builds significantly more playable. PLD's main filler combo does interact with a cast spell, but it grants a buff to make it instant. I could be wrong, but I think hard casting Holy Spirit takes priority over using Shield Lob in situations where PLD has to disengage, and they don't have Divine Might. So yeah, PLD can have a spell cast in its filler repertoire. RPR too with Harpe, but I hear it is significantly more janky to use well. Walking casts are not in PVE yet, but they should be. A melee that has a walking cast as part of its filler combo could be a lot of fun, and would definitely stand out against the other melees. They could also rework NIN's TCJ ability to utilize walking casts to make the skill not so fragile to use.

[CKNovel]

You're correct, it used to be a ranged thing.
RDM and Chakra RNG were added in Stormblood where they removed cast time from BRD/MCH.
In HW it was mostly a phys ranged thing, BLM had some light RNG element, moving away from its ARR big RNG iteration.