What makes tanking fun?

[AnjouMaaka]

I enjoy being able to (slowly) solo most dungeon bosses as a tank if the healer goes down, to pull out a win for the team. Makes me feel like a hero.

Something dark knight can rarely do because no self sustain. That's exclusive to the other 3 tanks and it would be nice to see dark knight no longer exempt from the club of soloing dungeon bosses from 90% for those times when it would be a big time save. Great example being that first boss of the 99 dungeon. I've yet to see a party not go through 5+ healers before clearing just that boss. DT is really where SE stopped pulling their punches

[kiotsukete]

Something dark knight can rarely do because no self sustain. That's exclusive to the other 3 tanks and it would be nice to see dark knight no longer exempt from the club of soloing dungeon bosses from 90% for those times when it would be a big time save…

True, sorry to DRK players but that’s why I prefer to run dungeons on tanks other than DRK. Though I do wonder if it’s necessarily a good thing that the other tanks have so much survivability without needing a healer for backup.

I recently had a healer dc after the 1st boss of the lv97 dungeon. I’m not even all that great at tanking, but was able to trio all the way to the end on WAR pulling one trash pack at a time with just DNC waltz and samba for support before a healer replacement matched in the middle of the last boss. That was a pretty fun tanking challenge, if a bit slow.

Some other fun things about tanking:
- Instant (or near instant) DF queues.
- Almost always get adventurer in need bonus.
- Easy comms just for taking hits to the face in place of others.

[Supersnow845]

Something dark knight can rarely do because no self sustain. That's exclusive to the other 3 tanks and it would be nice to see dark knight no longer exempt from the club of soloing dungeon bosses from 90% for those times when it would be a big time save. Great example being that first boss of the 99 dungeon. I've yet to see a party not go through 5+ healers before clearing just that boss. DT is really where SE stopped pulling their punches

“Those times it would be a big time save”

So never

Seriously for a bit I was content to ignore this thread but god damn guys “I’m a solo god who can ignore my party in a trinity game” should not be a desirable endpoint

You know what I like about tanking- agro management, protecting my party, maybe even dying for them, keeping the boss on me while my party does other important things, pulling damage on to myself from them

Do people seriously enjoy being immortal with zero actual challenge behind it. Like tanks aren’t even immortal because of gear or skill, they are literally just immortal because they exist

[AnjouMaaka]

“Those times it would be a big time save”

So never

Seriously for a bit I was content to ignore this thread but god damn guys “I’m a solo god who can ignore my party in a trinity game” should not be a desirable endpoint

You know what I like about tanking- agro management, protecting my party, maybe even dying for them, keeping the boss on me while my party does other important things, pulling damage on to myself from them

Do people seriously enjoy being immortal with zero actual challenge behind it. Like tanks aren’t even immortal because of gear or skill, they are literally just immortal because they exist

That's literally the reason people mod other games like Baldur's Gate 3 and Factorio. So they can feel like a god. Because that's what they find fun. It's also like the only skill expression that tanks still have that's actually meaningful and sometimes helpful. Not all tanks have the guts, much less the knowledge needed, to pull off the solo finish of a dungeon boss.

[Supersnow845]

That's literally the reason people mod other games like Baldur's Gate 3 and Factorio. So they can feel like a god. Because that's what they find fun.

Yes and modding a single player game is not remotely the same thing as inherent class design in a trinity MMO

If you want to be an immortal god then go mod a single player game, not affect 3/7 other players fun to achieve said goal in a trinity MMO

Pressing bloodwhetting isn’t guts or skill. Even if it was again skill shouldn’t include affecting other players ability to enjoy the game

[AnjouMaaka]

Yes and modding a single player game is not remotely the same thing as inherent class design in a trinity MMO

If you want to be an immortal god then go mod a single player game, not affect 3/7 other players fun to achieve said goal in a trinity MMO

Pressing bloodwhetting isn’t guts or skill. Even if it was again skill shouldn’t include affecting other players ability to enjoy the game

Your view is very narrow-minded, and that's likely because you don't play tank, and you don't even do the challenging content where tanks are not as immortal as you claim they are. They are not really that immortal in dungeons, and it takes serious skill as a tank to make it look that way, but we can all agree that Bloodwhetting is very powerful and that you hate that about warrior. The solution is to overcome that with content design and bring the other tanks up to warrior for their tank cooldowns.

[Supersnow845]

Your view is very narrow-minded, and that's likely because you don't play tank, and you don't even do the challenging content where tanks are not as immortal as you claim they are. They are not really that immortal in dungeons, and it takes serious skill as a tank to make it look that way, but we can all agree that Bloodwhetting is very powerful and that you hate that about warrior. The solution is to overcome that with content design and bring the other tanks up to warrior for their tank cooldowns.

No your view is narrow minded because you absolutely refuse to see any solution besides “every tank has to be as good as WAR” completely ignoring the fact that that would completely destroy any skill expression of the tanks because then they would just be equally as good at pressing overpowered CD’s which doesn’t help anyone. Your solution only “benefits” someone of your skill or below, for anyone above your skill level it just shoves the ceiling down closer to the floor

DRK is the current tank that actually has some measure of ability to express their skill because they aren’t immortal and their defensives and offensives interact. I don’t want DRK’s skill expression to be shoved down into “press the win button” like WAR has (and arguably PLD as well, GNB still has expression on its rotation complexity)

And as a regular savage PLD i am 100% functionally immortal in the current savage, autos from the boss challenge me like maybe twice in the entire tier, why does the boss even have autos if they do so little

[Valence]

I think I should be able to run the dungeons solo on my own as a DPS job and have the tools to run faster than the tank to make sure they aren't relevant anymore. That's what I like doing in unsynced content as a DPS after all.

[AnjouMaaka]

Completely ignored the part where I said "overcome that with content design."

[Supersnow845]

Because you can “overcome this with content design” without building it on top of the shaky foundation of overpowered tank CD’s that necessitate a hard floor for the tanks and make balancing incredibly messy

If BW is worth an arbitrary number (let’s say 100) and the damage to the tank is say 50, you don’t up the damage to 150 then make every tank have 100 as a baseline because it both makes it harder to balance and ensures that if the tank can’t press that 100 button then the entire thing becomes unclearable while also providing no benefits

Reducing tank sustain to a 25 and leaving damage at a 50 is way more viable, future proofed and easier to balance than trying to balance of the foundation of assuming every tank starts with a 100