[SPOILERS] Dawntrail should get an ARR-style retcon in the post-MSQ

[Eyrilona]

I'd say more like roleplaying with Skynet, given that these particular chatbots have the ability to commit mass murder in order to get the aether they need to keep going...

None of the Endless that we kill has any power at all. The only one remotely able to affect out physical world is Cahciua and she has one measly non-combat drone. None of them has any hostile intent towards us either, the only thing driving that is the meddling that Preservation has done to override Sphene's free will as the system's 'control unit', saddling her with an absolute need to do anything and everything to keep a flawed system going.

Also, if we remain consistent in the view on what is and is not alive and/or worthy of equal right to life, as built up through the entirety of SB, ShB and EW, then there was no question that these memory constructs formed a living society, just not as we know it. So I am going to make the following somewhat odd statement.. while you could argue iRL whether or not the Endless were alive and therefore whether or not what happened was genocide, within the specific context of Final Fantasy XIV, this was indeed genocide, because the game's own lore in the previous expansions had already established an in-lore threshold for treating alternative forms of existence as alive, one that the Endless were well within. You can only argue moral relativism from an iRL point of view, if the setting of the game defaults to iRL viewpoints -- but in this case, the setting already had its own rules, and by those, yes it was a genocide.

[Rin_Sato]

None of the Endless that we kill has any power at all. The only one remotely able to affect out physical world is Cahciua and she has one measly non-combat drone. None of them has any hostile intent towards us either, the only thing driving that is the meddling that Preservation has done to override Sphene's free will as the system's 'control unit', saddling her with an absolute need to do anything and everything to keep a flawed system going.

Also, if we remain consistent in the view on what is and is not alive and/or worthy of equal right to life, as built up through the entirety of SB, ShB and EW, then there was no question that these memory constructs formed a living society, just not as we know it. So I am going to make the following somewhat odd statement.. while you could argue iRL whether or not the Endless were alive and therefore whether or not what happened was genocide, within the specific context of Final Fantasy XIV, this was indeed genocide, because the game's own lore in the previous expansions had already established an in-lore threshold for treating alternative forms of existence as alive, one that the Endless were well within. You can only argue moral relativism from an iRL point of view, if the setting of the game defaults to iRL viewpoints -- but in this case, the setting already had its own rules, and by those, yes it was a genocide.

Agreed. I am certain many others have said the following before I have, too:

If they at least had rigorous debate to reach a conclusion, discussed it with the inhabitants and they all agreed to being shut down? Ok, that's their choice at that point.
The WoL gang takes the decision from them, nevermind even considering if the decision should be made.

For being an expansion about learning about new cultures and being open to their customs, the protagonists sure seemed hellbent on destroying and conquering foreign ones.
And before anyone replies "it wasn't their intention" or "with good intentions". Yeah they *coincidentally* killed most of their population (as they considered them to be alive). They *coincidentally* killed their beloved ruler. They *coincidentally* installed a puppet king. Colonial/imperial Europe/Britain would blush.

Further, the "chatbots" linger after the machines are shutdown fully autonomously, they just lack a power source to live longer (iirc). Come on, that's so obviously sapient, there's not a machine controlling them at that point, is there? Or is the next argument going to be necrotechnology?