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  1. #1
    Player
    AnimalsALot's Avatar
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    Apr 2024
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    55
    Character
    Dogcat Bearwolf
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90

    The FF14 community does not understand SE's design choice

    Lo and behold this interview with Yoshi P.

    "With regards to the changes for Viper, we had adjusted right until the last minute and we did have in mind the possibility that some players might provide feedback that it was too busy to play," Yoshida begins. "We did release the job in that state, and then we found a lot of players say it was very busy to play to the extent that they were not able to see mechanics.
    Correct. There were several posts on the official forums that mentioned just how busy Viper is.





    A lot of players also said that the changes are good:



    Yoshida explains that while the team eventually went through with the adjustments, this was "unrelated to the community feedback," although he thinks there "probably there was some misunderstanding on the community's part" in regards to this. He adds: "I do remember on social media, especially in North America and in Europe, some people were saying, 'Hey, Yoshida, you're listening too much to community feedback,' but that was only a little bit so really you don't need to worry."
    This is a very positive direction for Square Enix to go. Square Enix is avoiding the classic pitfall of MMO developers of listening to community feedback. The Viper changes is borne out of their vision for the game and not silly ideas like "feedback".

    GamesRadar's journalist also writes a completely factual fact in a factual piece reporting on this news, that:

    Clearly, the team had the community's best interests in mind, even if there was no way everyone would be pleased.
    This is not opinion, but fact. Square Enix has the community's best interests in mind and knows better than us. Unfortunately, the FF14 community does not understand SE's design choice. But not to worry, Square Enix does not need to listen to feedback and are making changes for our own good, despite our protests.
    (12)

  2. #2
    Player
    BaconBits's Avatar
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    Mar 2019
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    1,535
    Character
    Arya Diavolos
    World
    Famfrit
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 98
    (29)
    Last edited by BaconBits; 09-18-2024 at 06:44 AM.

  3. #3
    Player
    NegativeS's Avatar
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    Jun 2021
    Location
    Azeroth
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    803
    Character
    Negative Space
    World
    Seraph
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 100
    Please understand. Small indie company. Cannot afford enough CR cronies to comb the forums. The only people who get to provide feedback are the streamers that the devs watch on their lunch break.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koros View Post
    (39)
    Last edited by NegativeS; 09-18-2024 at 09:40 AM.


    My outline for a Chemist healer: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/513527-Healer-Concept-Draft-Chemist

  4. #4
    Player
    Cyrtip's Avatar
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    Jan 2023
    Location
    Gridania
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    54
    Character
    Cyrtip Norcrest
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Blue Mage Lv 80
    Their design choice in regards to jobs is plain stupid, in a lot of scenarios it feels like they aren't "updating" the jobs for the playerbase that currently likes them, but instead for another group, ease of balancing, or to market that "every job got shiny new changes with 7.0".

    Dragoon is a laughable example of #3, the job hits the same number of actions during burst, some were just replaced with "new" abilities. Now rather than press Spineshatter Dive twice, I press both Stardiver and Dragonfire Dive a second time. Instead of pressing Life of the Dragon in my burst, I press a third Nastrond instead. Wooow.

    If people are trying out a job that is new to them, and they don't like it, tough. You're not the target audience for this one, and there's 20 more included in your sub. Developers shouldn't see Jim not like Job and think "Lets rework this for a wider/different audience," that's how we get 7.0 MNK and BLM. Those two used to be considered the jobs with the most depth in the entire game, jobs with priorities instead of rigid rotations. Now MNK is just bland builder/spender melee #6, and BLM's flare star forces rigidity in a job that for as long as I can remember was notable because of its flexibility.

    In a closer-to-perfect world than this, the people who liked those two could likewise take my advice to "try another one of the 20 other jobs," but literally all of them have been moving in the same design direction since Shadowbringers. Streamlined, simplified, and sleep inducing.

    Also,
    Square Enix is avoiding the classic pitfall of MMO developers of listening to community feedback
    is a wild statement. How is listening to feedback a "pitfall?"

    Taking their own words out of their mouths, "The mindset that the solution to every problem could be patched in a future update" is a pitfall. 'We've heard your feedback, wait until 7.2 8.0 for job gameplay to be in a passable state' sounds a lot like that. Could just be me.


    And even then, from the same interview you linked,
    We did release the job [VPR] in that state, and then we found a lot of players say it was very busy to play
    The response to that was a lot of feedback from players who had already reached the level cap and were already used to playing with the job, and they were happy with the way it played
    They're not ignoring feedback, they're cherry-picking it.

    Finally, if the community at large is failing to understand Square's design choices, it's because they're poorly explained. Not our fault, theirs.
    From the same article yet again:
    We announced that we were considering making adjustments to the job
    Square didn't announce they were considering changes. They announced there would be changes, and are now claiming something completely different happened. Not the greatest communication.
    (30)
    Last edited by Cyrtip; 09-18-2024 at 11:01 AM.
    https://tinyurl.com/3hw7jt7w
    "Square Enix 'will be incorporating various changes' post-Dawntrail... come such changes, classes 'will not be more simple.'"

  5. #5
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
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    Aug 2021
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    Gridania
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    6,470
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    You also can’t ignore the fact that there is a strangely large amount of people in 14 who will white knight anything. You see it on the forums anytime a topic comes up that is even mildly discussed or discussed across multiple threads

    Inevitably someone will come in and make a thread like “I want to thank the devs for being so good to us” or “I like x change because the devs know what they are doing” and oftentimes haha no idea about the actual ins and outs of the topic and it just reads like they are defending square

    That “viper changes are good actually” thread is an example of this

    Randomly pulling thread names out of the aether that seem to align with the point that it people do agree with changes while ignoring these threads exist won’t go anywhere
    (21)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  6. #6
    Player
    Divinemights's Avatar
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    Jul 2016
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    2,082
    Character
    Altria Pendragons
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Supersnow845 View Post
    You also can’t ignore the fact that there is a strangely large amount of people in 14 who will white knight anything.
    There is also a fact there is a strangely large portion of players in FF14 will accuse others being White Knights when they unable to present a valid argument but really want to shut up those who do not agree
    (6)
    Last edited by Divinemights; 09-18-2024 at 11:32 AM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Supersnow845's Avatar
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    Aug 2021
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    Gridania
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    6,470
    Character
    Andreas Cestelle
    World
    Jenova
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Divinemights View Post
    There is also a fact there is a strangely large portion of players in FF14 will accuse others being White Knights when they unable to present a valid argument but really want to shut up those who do not agree
    That’s why I specifically said threads that present opposition to prevailing criticism but are completely vapid or empty

    If the devs are getting criticised for an unpopular change making a thread titled “I just want to thank the devs for all they do for us” is just bait

    Valid praise for actually well designed elements is fine (I’ll gush about pictomancer all day if you give me half a chance), vapid threads that just amount to people unhappy that I he game receiving criticism is not. That’s not anti white knighting and if you aren’t white knighting then actually defend your point. If you come in and go “I like this and no I won’t explain my point to anyone” I’m probably gonna assume you are a white knight
    (6)
    As a healer main in this game for nigh on 14 years all I can say is that I’m tired. My role has been eroded of complexity and expression for 3 expansions. I’ve watched the tanks do my role for me for 2 expansions and my feedback and critiques continue to fall on deaf ears.

    I have no idea who modern healers are designed for but I know now it’s not me. This is the first expansion I’m truly considering dropping the healer role and not returning, so if that was the goal- congratulations I guess

  8. #8
    Player Rekh's Avatar
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    Jan 2024
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    521
    Character
    Fresh Tree
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 90
    "See mechanics" gives it away.
    AKA High end raiders.

    As I stated before, that's whom the game is designed around, been that way since shadowbringers.

    Welcome to the rot of every mmo where class/job design is either catered mostly to pvp'ers or high end raiders.
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player
    All_Nonsense's Avatar
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    Feb 2024
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    Gridania
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    257
    Character
    Neo Bird
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 100
    The last time I checked, the community payed the electric bill for SE, not the design vision This might be the dumbest thread I've ever seen on these forums, even from Titanmen. If you wanna kneel down to design visions instead of what the players actually want then go play Concord. Oh wait, they had to end service because no one gave them any money. Funny how that works
    (5)
    Quote Originally Posted by ReynTime View Post
    I can't believe Final Fantasy XIV made an entire expansion focused on Jar Jar Binks.

  10. #10
    Player
    Hanayumi's Avatar
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    Nov 2013
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    1,220
    Character
    Kara Dusksinger
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    I mean lets be real... the devs do not tread into the heeping garbage pit that is the English forum. 50% of it being troll threads and posts with the other half having dozens upon dozens of samey threads. If they really want to take feedback serious they should prolly toss out some kind of survey with every patch...
    (3)

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