Why current job design is boring?

[BabyYoda]

What are you on about? Who are these "most people"? AST got gutted because they rework it every expansion, as they clearly have no idea what they want to do with it. What Esunas are healers missing? The vast majority of debuffs can't even be removed anymore.

AST ShB and EW have more skill expression than WHM.. because you have to understand card system and act fast after drawing random card AND manage people HP

It is overwhelming for most healers.. I have seen people complaining why RNG is there even in balance perspective
You can't design RNG job with scripted encounter design with no algorithm that will change how boss behave

[Supersnow845]

AST ShB and EW have more skill expression than WHM.. because you have to understand card system and act fast after drawing random card AND manage people HP

It is overwhelming for most healers.. I have seen people complaining why RNG is there even in balance perspective
You can't design RNG job with scripted encounter design with no algorithm that will change how boss behave

AST was complained about because it’s excessive APM bloat disguised as complexity, there was no complexity to EW AST it was just a test of horribly bad APM (especially on controller) that heavily punished failure

Healer pDPS shouldn't be cut, in fact it should be increased.

But, for making them the dedicated support... Take away the partywide buffs from most DPS... BRD and DNC maybe can keep theirs, since they were intended to be partially support...But Brotherhood, Enbolden, Arcane Circle, Battle Litany, Starry Muse, Mug and Searing Light losing their boost to the raid... And then boosting Divination and Chain Stratagem to like 20% Damage boosts and also giving WHM and SGE something as well to buff damage... Could always give them different flavors of damage boosts, like Haste and Direct Hit chance... Like making WHM's Presence of Mind stronger and raidwide...

If you buff rDPS then you can easily cut pDPS without much of a change, also buffing pDPS would make the healers way too strong on the damage front

[CaptainLagbeard]

If you buff rDPS then you can easily cut pDPS without much of a change, also buffing pDPS would make the healers way too strong on the damage front

I would say that pDPS wise, they should be at the level of tanks, as they are also a role where supposedly DPS isn't the primary purpose...

[Supersnow845]

I would say that pDPS wise, they should be at the level of tanks, as they are also a role where supposedly DPS isn't the primary purpose...

If they were at the tanks pDPS wise then had strong raid buffs like they currently do then the healers would be doing physical ranged level damage

The tanks already do DNC/BRD pDPS numbers and we are also suggesting buffing healers rDPS contribution as well

[CaptainLagbeard]

If they were at the tanks pDPS wise then had strong raid buffs like they currently do then the healers would be doing physical ranged level damage

The tanks already do DNC/BRD pDPS numbers and we are also suggesting buffing healers rDPS contribution as well

What I am suggesting is that DPS would still keep their buffs, but they would only affect themselves and not the party/raid. The party-wide effects to increase damage being given to Healers instead. Overall in terms of buffs, the DPS increases would stay relatively the same. Just from a different source and with less variance on the full potency depending on teams lineup. Maybe 20% is too much with 2 healers now that I think about it though...

And addition to that change, bring up healers pDPS to the same level as the completely unaffected Tanks.

[Supersnow845]

What I am suggesting is that DPS would still keep their buffs, but they would only affect themselves and not the party/raid. The party-wide effects to increase damage being given to Healers instead. Overall in terms of buffs, the DPS increases would stay relatively the same. Just from a different source and with less variance on the full potency depending on teams lineup. Maybe 20% is too much with 2 healers now that I think about it though...

And addition to that change, bring up healers pDPS to the same level as the completely unaffected Tanks.

Yes and I’m saying that’s overpowered, I don’t think you quite understand how much pDPS the tanks do. The tanks pDPS is the same as BRD and DNC’s pDPS. You are suggesting giving the healers tank level pDPS then adding in massive raid buffs then nerfing the DPS because they no longer gain rDPS from their raid buffs affecting others

Healers would jump to the strongest classes in the game overnight

[CaptainLagbeard]

Yes and I’m saying that’s overpowered, I don’t think you quite understand how much pDPS the tanks do. The tanks pDPS is the same as BRD and DNC’s pDPS. You are suggesting giving the healers tank level pDPS then adding in massive raid buffs then nerfing the DPS because they no longer gain rDPS from their raid buffs affecting others

Healers would jump to the strongest classes in the game overnight

Healers theoretically at least still have to stop DPSing to heal occasionally, thus leaving less uptime than Tanks and ranged phys. And Ranged Phys still would have their own buffs to increasing their DPS as a whole.

[BabyYoda]

AST was complained about because it’s excessive APM bloat disguised as complexity, there was no complexity to EW AST it was just a test of horribly bad APM (especially on controller) that heavily punished failure



If you buff rDPS then you can easily cut pDPS without much of a change, also buffing pDPS would make the healers way too strong on the damage front

I agree APM is a problem.. but think of it as a casual player.. you have to manage:
1- damage buffs consistently ( currently 1 min or 2 min)
2- Reactive time mage fantasy.. you have to plan things out.
3- managing people HP and removing debuff

Sorry but this is too much for casual players without mentioning APM issue.

AST have to be gutted or I would rather suggest splitting the job to 2 version one support role and other is time mage healer

[Azurarok]

AST was complained about because it’s excessive APM bloat disguised as complexity, there was no complexity to EW AST it was just a test of horribly bad APM (especially on controller) that heavily punished failure

More specifically its high APM during its burst, which funnily enough is no better in DT, possibly worse because of the way Astral/Umbral Draw works can mix up when to insert Lord of Crowns. The only thing that's better is the second light speed charge

I've heard none of the cards could be stacked back in SB and you basically just had AoE Balance (or single target Balance or none at all with bad RNG) so it was arguably less busy than it had been since ShB.

[PercibelTheren]

AST ShB and EW have more skill expression than WHM.. because you have to understand card system and act fast after drawing random card AND manage people HP

It is overwhelming for most healers.. I have seen people complaining why RNG is there even in balance perspective
You can't design RNG job with scripted encounter design with no algorithm that will change how boss behave

You could straight up ignore AST cards in all casual content and be completely fine. It wasn't complex at all, either, just busy. Again, who are these "most healers"? Did you ask healer players? The RNG was completely negligible as well unless you were trying to get funny numbers on a forbidden website and I can't imagine they would listen to people whose feedback amounted to "I'm not getting the result I want on a third party tool that's explicitly against the TOS". The only thing I saw complaints about was Astrodyne because it felt useless.

Personally, AST was the last bastion of a healing job I still enjoyed in this game. The rest of them make me fall asleep. I don't know why ALL healers have to be extremely simple when there are 4 of them. Tell BLM players that BLM is "too overwhelming for most caster players" and needs to become like SMN, see how that goes. Why is it healers and only healers that get singled out like this? It makes no sense.