Evidence that Macros Do NOT Cause GCD Delay or Lost Casts

[GrizzlyTank]

This post has also convinced me that you don't know what "queue" means in the context of GCDs.

Or he's a really dedicated troll.

[LilimoLimomo]

For the record, I was using the first video in your post, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsZo2iWJDrs. Because I'm not going to go through you hard casting Bliz 1 40ish times

Gotcha, so what you're saying is that you didn't watch the video that actually does the tests that the entire post was about, and instead watched a different video that doesn't do any tests.

because apparently you doing your rotation properly for your "proofs" is impossible

I did the same kind of test as the video I was debunking. And while I successfully debunked the video, I respect that the creator of that video knew how to properly construct an experiment. When performing experiments, the ideal is to make the experiment as simple as possible to mitigate the potential of the results being impacted by confounding variables.

Instead of ignoring the bulk of my message and dancing around the issue, simply provide actual video evidence of your assertion.

You've demonstrated that you haven't made the effort to entirely read or understand my post, nor have you even bothered to watch the experiment I ran that was the whole point of the post. Without even looking at the data, you've written multiple posts trying to undermine it.

The bulk of your message was ignored because the bulk of your message was you describing a video that you wanted me to make. Especially when I already made a video that you didn't watch, and the video you want me to make doesn't even follow any manner of scientific method.

If you don't want to look at the data that already exists, feel free not to. But if you want to call the data I've provided into question, I recommend that the first step you take be to actually look at the data so you have any idea what you're talking about.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt once.

Alt, you didn't even watch the video. Do not flatter yourself; you have given me nothing.

This is interesting actually. This Macro will cause you to always lose 0-3 frames on Flare Star, 0-2 frames on Fire 4, and you have a 50/50 chance of losing 1 frame if the macro happens to land in the middle.

You're actually engaging reasonably with this part, so I'll treat with you in good faith on this one. Your analysis is technically correct, but the way you present it risks being misleading. You lose 3 lead-in frames on a Flare Star when it is cast unchained, and you lose 2 lead-in frames on a Fire IV when it is cast unchained. But when you chain them, you lose 0 lead-in frames. Then as you correctly stated, in addition to all lead-in frames, you lose either 0 or 1 additional frames. Which means that if you're actually queuing your casts (which you should be if you want to maximize your APM) then you're going to only have a 50/50 chance to lose 1 frame.

That's assuming the thing even fires.

I'm so curious about you having said this multiple times. I've been using macros for the better part of a decade now, and I've never had one that doesn't fire. I suppose it's possible that there's some nuance to certain computer specs or something that results in macros not working sometimes, but I would guess it's more likely that you haven't yet grown accustomed to the feel for when to press certain macros you've used. There is certainly a learning curve, but once you learn it, it's consistent. At least, in my experience it has been, but I play on consoles where things tend to be more uniform and have less variation.

DO NOT ENCOURAGE THIS. Some Spell Speed thresholds literally only have a few frames to complete before you drop fire. This Macro will, literally, cause people to lose Astral fire when they otherwise would have been fine.

You act like I'm telling players to use this macro, rather than simply sharing it with someone who asked to see it. I've already said numerous times that macros are not one-size-fits-all and that they will generally need to be tailored to the system and the needs of the player, so it should be clear to anyone who has read this thread that I'm not saying, "Hey everyone, use this specific macro!" It simply demonstrates a technique that players can use if they want.

Because I've gone to the effort of informing them about how macros function and what their pros and cons are, I trust my fellow player to know whether a macro they're using is causing them issues. If a player finds that they are regularly missing their Astral Fire by a few frames, then yeah, one possible change would be to stop using a specific macro, or to find a way to adjust it so that it works better for them. Whatever that specific player chooses is fine.

This one is actually worse than the above. If you press the Macro and it is able to fire on the last line, you straight up waste Manafont.

Yeah, if you press it and your GCD doesn't cast but you don't want Manafont, you're right that you'll waste Manafont. The solution is to not press it at these times. For any player who thinks they'll have problems with this, I recommend not using this macro. I've never had an issue with an ability firing when I don't want to in a macro of this kind, because timing macro button presses isn't an issue for me. For people who feel similarly, this is an effective macro.

You have to spam it.

I genuinely don't know why you would say this; macros should never be spammed, unless the macro was specifically designed with that in mind. Which none of my macros are.

Or, you WANT to hit Manafont, but you also need to save the F3 for future use. That's straight impossible with this now.

This is true! If you find that you have situations where you want to cast Manafont from a stand-still, then you won't be able to. This hasn't been an issue for me, as my ideal times to cast Manafont overwhelmingly occur when my GCD is recovering after an instant-cast. That said, like all macros, anyone who finds that to be "not worth it" should definitely not use this specific macro.

That's the great thing about macros: you customize them to your needs, and if even after that they don't fit your needs, you simply don't use them. Whichever path you take, as long as you make an informed decision, you'll end up with results that are suited to your needs.

[LilimoLimomo]

Apologies for pestering you more, @Lilimo, but after some experimentation I've managed to nearly consolidate everything for Lv 100 BLM to the one set of 16 XHB slots and it feels pretty good!

Congratulations! I'm really glad you've got things feeling nice for yourself. ^^

I'm struggling to figure out what to do with role actions (aside from Swiftcast) and potions, though. In the worst case scenario, I don't suppose I would need to map Sleep or Lucid Dreaming, but I would definitely like access to the rest of them at all times. How do you handle these in your setup?

Honestly, both of these I use so infrequently that I put them in some of the more inconvenient parts of the controller for me. They're not even macros, just the normal actions.

If you want to show me what you're working with, I'd be happy to roll out some possible suggestions tailored to your setup that may or may not suit your tastes. Whether you type out your macros or just make a quick video scrolling through them, either is fine. But no pressure! Especially because from what I'm hearing, it sounds like you have things working better for your BLM than I do following the Dawntrail adjustments! ^^

[Mikoko_Miko]

/ac "Transpose"
/crosshotbar copy BLM 4 BLM 1
/ac "Transpose"
/ac "Transpose"
/ac "Transpose"
/ac "Transpose"
/ac "Transpose"
/ac "Transpose"
/ac "Transpose"
/ac "Transpose"
/ac "Transpose"
/ac "Transpose"
/ac "Transpose"
/ac "Transpose"
/macroicon "Transpose"

I'm also using a similar macro. Mine only toggles XHBs (Astral Fire / Umbral Ice) and sets Transpose action on the slot of itself, so I need to press the same button twice to Transpose.

/macrolock
/crosshotbar copy BLM 2 BLM 3
/crosshotbar copy BLM 1 BLM 2
/crosshotbar copy BLM 3 BLM 1
/crosshotbar set Transpose 1 RAU
/macroicon Transpose action <wait.1>
/crosshotbar copy BLM 3 BLM 1

This is based on a macro I saw somewhere in Japan. I suppose that this type of macro should be allowed, even if using actions in macros remains controversial.

[Absurdity]

I can barely use a pot after a weapon skill (no not in a macro. Just from the hotbar) without having to time it "just so" without the risk of the pot not going off and me just mashing the button angrily as the rest of the world around me keeps hitting the boss and my opener getting fubard.. my experience has never been great with macros. Timing issues aside, they just get hung up and don't work sometimes.

That used to be an issue with pots due to them not only lacking the action queue but also having a seemingly much longer animation lock, it has however been pretty much fixed in Dawntrail to the point where you can double weave your pot and an oGCD in the same window without clipping.

Now only Sprint suffers from the issue of not queing, one of the reasons that a Sprint macro is actually just flat out better than the normal Sprint action...and I guess buff food.

[LilimoLimomo]

I'm also using a similar macro. Mine only toggles XHBs (Astral Fire / Umbral Ice) and sets Transpose action on the slot of itself, so I need to press the same button twice to Transpose.

/macrolock
/crosshotbar copy BLM 2 BLM 3
/crosshotbar copy BLM 1 BLM 2
/crosshotbar copy BLM 3 BLM 1
/crosshotbar set Transpose 1 RAU
/macroicon Transpose action <wait.1>
/crosshotbar copy BLM 3 BLM 1

This is based on a macro I saw somewhere in Japan. I suppose that this type of macro should be allowed, even if using actions in macros remains controversial.

I mean, you're allowed to use any kind of macro you want; if it works for you, then it works for you.

This is interesting; I've never seen a macro quite like it before!

It looks like it locks the macro so it can't be interrupted, then swaps XHB 1 and 2 using XHB 3 as temporary storage, then temporarily puts Transpose in an action slot for a single second before wiping it out again with a final paste. So if I understand correctly, your XHB 1 and 2 are for Astral Fire and Umbral Ice, and this button can be manually used to swaps those bars, which then gives you a 1 second window so you can activate Transpose when you want to.

Huh...that's clever! I haven't used /macrolock much, probably because part of me wonders if there might be situations where I want to use another macro during that window which then wouldn't function properly. But I haven't fully thought that through, and to really understand whether /macrolock would hinder me at any given point I'd need to think about the different contexts I'd use it in. Or I could just give it a spin and see if it gives me any trouble. That would probably be better than being superstitious about it, so I'll start thinking about whether there are any situations where this kind of macro could benefit my play.

Thanks for sharing this with me! ^^

[Shialan]

I love how OP takes everyone's criticism and just goes

"You haven't read anything"

"Watch the video"

[Collin_Sky]

Can you clarify whether you are you literally talking about every cast in the video, or a subset of casts? I want to make sure I understand what you're saying so I can take a proper look.

Read the whole post.

I could notice a delay after every single GCD when using macros.

[Rin_Sato]

They do, because that's the only way to definitively prove things. You're also telling people "Want proof? Do this!" When your suggestion has absolutely nothing to do with the GCD. OP absolutely has an obligation to give REAL evidence.

The method in my post proves that even just macroerror adds a delay (as do all lines in a macro), and subsequently that there is an inherent delay inbetween each action (which is not insignificant), regardless of GCD or not.

[Rin_Sato]

I'm genuinely unsure what you think you're demonstrating here. By mashing two macros alternately, each macro has the potential to interrupt both itself and the other macro; that's part of why in my first post I clearly recommend that macros not be mashed. Don't do that and you'll be fine.

As an aside, I've heard from others that /echo has some interesting timing behavior that differs from other macro commands such as /ac, though I haven't looked into it myself since I don't use /echo macros. I can't tell if that's part of what you're seeing since the mashing is obviously going to get in the way.

What is being demonstrated is that each line in a macro adds a delay.
By exacerbating the issue through adding duplicate lines the issue as well as my point is made more clear: macros add an inherent delay independent of GCD.
It doesn't take much reasoning past that to infer that they are (to an extent) going to cause a loss in GCD.