Dawntrail's MSQ story is a disaster and waste of potential. [full spoilers]

[Lydia77]

Tonight i listened to old FF14 *core* sogs (thx VPN)
HW theme, Revolution, Tomorrow and Tomorrow, and Flow.
I will not lie. I had tears runing down my cheeks. All of those themes reminded me about such great stories we shared. I was too early to the Hype after WOW crush (aka came in before it) but i arrived mid ShB and it took me some time to catch up since i loved this game so much and did all the content possible.
I loved Storm Blood! Hyen is still one of my fav characters and i am so mad they lowered him to the level with some random beast tribe dudes. But hearing this compilation... Music in this game gives me a reason to move on with my life. Its beautyfull. I was Uematsu fangirl my whole life till i met Soken.
And then i got Smile recommended... I will be honest. Despite everything i posted above i SKIPPED final credits as soon as i relised they put in scions *trailer moment* into credits disrespecting us all even more. Now i listened to it. At least i tried to. I couldnt not bear it for more than 20 seconds. I do not hear Masayoshi Soken in it. i REFUSE to belive he is involved in this... crime against human ears.
But then i relised that my brain, in self defence no doubt, erased the "train preparation" scene from my memory. I TRIED to re-watch it. I could not.
I can not take it anymore. This game gave me reasons to go on, bu DT turned it into.. i dont know how to say politely. SHIT.
PS I also had to listen to *deicated to moonlight* one with video. I REFUSE to Belive Soken had anything to do with Smile
And to add to the contest, Arcadeon 4 shadowed ARR Siva for me (which brought me to this game), boss themes rival other boss theme , which are similary amazing in my ears And Skydeep Cenode may be my fav themes of the game at this moment

[Rabblerabble]

The story of this expansion is pretty terrible.

That being said I want to go over elements that have bothered me from previous expansions.. namely the scions.
I have been tired of them since stormblood. They all passed out and we kept getting told their condition was worsening and I was like, cool. Maybe we will get some new companions now. Nope, they just send you to another dimension and you get them all over again. A couple of them almost died. That scene where Thancred collapses after fighting Ranjiit comes to my mind. Ishtola "dying" and literally like the next few sparkly nodes clicked later and she is alive and well again.



Ok fast forward to the Ultima Thule. Every scion pretty much dies. Endwalker.. all scions .. ended. Ok? They didn't all have to di.. oh it's ok they are all back and better. Beat the last trial and the ending cutscene of .0 is literally us hearing that the Scions are done! I was like ok, I can bite that apple and look forward to our ne... oh! .1 drops and we literally re-assemble the whole crew all over again.

Dawntrail drops. I was unsubscribed at this point. Friends kept asking me to come back, and asking me to do maps and things. I took them up and recently came back like a month ago now.

I tried to follow the msq, I was lightheartedly intrigued to see that the "scions" were split for this adventure and like many others I soon noticed that this "tension" literally culminated with Urianger and Thancred knocking some rocks in our way in a cave. That was it.

A plethora of other issues exist in the overall story of the game for me, but this is one that just keeps bothering me, expansion after expansion. This dopey way of trying to get some kind of emotional response by putting some kind of perilous situation in front of us and well one cutscene or dungeon later everything is good. Nothing to see here, click on your next glowie node pls tell your friends they can play up to the end of stormblood for free.

I don't hate the actual "game". I enjoy the actual feeling there are teeth waiting to bite me when I queue for a dungeon now. But this latest expansions storytelling and "hooks" have by far been the absolute worst of the lot by far, in my honest opinion.


-- I sincerely hope that whatever way they interpret the criticism if they even bother to acknowledge it isn't boiled down to.. "the stakes weren't high enough, whole world needs to burn again to make them happy".

[CuteBucket]

I wasn't a big fan of how the Scions were handled in Endwalker but it was more of a minor gripe for me, not a massive problem. It has escalated to a massive problem. They were interchangeable cardboard Scion standees that existed to fill a slot in Duty Support. I don't hate the Scions by any means, I know why they want to keep some tried and true characters around. But this ain't it.

Either commit to some or all of Scions being a major part of the story, or don't bother to bring them along at all and just give them brief cameos of them doing their own thing. All of now, they were relegated to the peanut gallery of offering useless lines that added nothing to the story or their characters for most of the expansion, or, in Alisaie's case, flat out talked over and ignored when she brings up some valid points in the later 2/3rds of the game.

I much prefer the proposal that from here on out, we focus on one or two Scions to bring with us for part of the story. Let them trade the spotlight with each other as opposed to trying to cram them all under it at once (endwalker) or get shoved out of it and left to linger by the edges by the new character(s) (dawntrail).

[Lydia77]

Speaking of Thancred droping some rocks....
Trust....
EW Trust gave scions so many moments outside of MSQ. i honestly do not remember ShB one but EW had at least 2 moments for EVERY scion. Atatiascope where every scion gave a comment about souls we meet there. And Ktistsis Hyperborea where first boss gave UNIQUE reaction to EVERY scion. Thancred commented on stealth, Urianger suddenly learned black mage teleport, Shtola RP walking to safe spot disrespecting the enemy, Alisaie hiting all spots with magic in rage, trying to find the opponent. And thats the dungeon they cant possible be in lorewise!
In DT dungeon 1 i took Thancred and Urianger with me to see their reaction. Which never happened. Later on i relised that only *reaction* we have are MSQ NPC shenenigans IF the character is present at the time. Dung one is Alisaie and Krile talking (ignorin another ALisaie on the boat). In dung 2 its them again.
Dungeon 1 Krile reacting to doppleganger slimes: "Its US!". Meanwhile Urianger and Thdancred seeing literaal THEMSELVES: " ....... "
This expansion had 0 love from devs. I dont know why, but we all can feel it every step we take.
And i dont hate DT at all! I love new graphics. i love new zones looks, i love music so much!!! its one of the best in game for me!!!! I love new dungeons. New raid is the best! But WHY did MSQ had to suck so much? Why did these little details had to be done like that?
Its like the joke we have here: "someone threw fake cristmass decorations in the market. They look like the real thing, but they do not bring any joy."

[Mondschnee]

For what it's worth, I'd like to add this review series by Durantes to the pool of Dawntrail feedback.
He is pretty harsh with his feedback, but it's worth listening to because he breaks down critical points extremely well.

Story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJiYJXd4vaE
Wuk Lamat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdIcjviRFo&t=1s
The villains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl0_kt7CyRE&t=2397s

And just like Thancred once said: "And if that sounds harsh, it's because we care."

[Coratanni]

For what it's worth, I'd like to add this review series by Durantes to the pool of Dawntrail feedback.
He is pretty harsh with his feedback, but it's worth listening to because he breaks down critical points extremely well.

Story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJiYJXd4vaE
Wuk Lamat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdIcjviRFo&t=1s
The villains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl0_kt7CyRE&t=2397s

And just like Thancred once said: "And if that sounds harsh, it's because we care."

I remember when he first posted his videos. 100% agreement.

[LittleArrow]

For what it's worth, I'd like to add this review series by Durantes to the pool of Dawntrail feedback.
He is pretty harsh with his feedback, but it's worth listening to because he breaks down critical points extremely well.

Story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJiYJXd4vaE
Wuk Lamat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdIcjviRFo&t=1s
The villains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl0_kt7CyRE&t=2397s

And just like Thancred once said: "And if that sounds harsh, it's because we care."

Great recommendation! I couldn't agree more with the criticisms. As much as I am disappointed and frustrated with the slop that is the DT expansion, my support for this game is a nerve I can't seem to sever. I still get the itch to defend it when I hear other content creators nitpick and just unload on XIV, even if it's deserved. So despite my very strong opinion about my dislike with DT, I haven't really delved into posted breakdowns about the expansion. This is also due to me being comfortable with how much I dislike DT and why.

Still, Durantes breakdowns sound like they come from a fan of the game, and not just someone that plays it to get views. He is measured in his criticisms and doesn't hold back punches. Very cathartic to watch it and hear my same grievances in a way that doesn't want to just crap on the game b/c he got a deal with WoW or is playing up an online persona with no investment in the success of the game (not saying all content creators do this, but some of the bigger ones I used to respect to a degree have totally sold out imo).

[Kennar]

For what it's worth, I'd like to add this review series by Durantes to the pool of Dawntrail feedback.
He is pretty harsh with his feedback, but it's worth listening to because he breaks down critical points extremely well.

Story: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJiYJXd4vaE
Wuk Lamat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdIcjviRFo&t=1s
The villains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl0_kt7CyRE&t=2397s

And just like Thancred once said: "And if that sounds harsh, it's because we care."

I've been enjoying his work. For the most part I was nodding along and saying, "Right on, right on," but he did start to lose me with his critique of Living Memory. I admire his passion, but by that point in the story I just didn't care about Living Memory or the Endless. There were too many unanswered questions, too many contrivances, too much time-wasting and faffing about--let's just shut it down so I can defeat the Big Bad and go home. Stories that question how to define life and consciousness have been done countless times, and in far better ways.

I'm more disappointed that we turned EPCOT of the Damned into the most pointless, boring zone in the game. The second act should have been an entire expansion in itself, then maybe it could have been fleshed out enough for me to care.

[Mondschnee]

I've been enjoying his work. For the most part I was nodding along and saying, "Right on, right on," but he did start to lose me with his critique of Living Memory. I admire his passion, but by that point in the story I just didn't care about Living Memory or the Endless. There were too many unanswered questions, too many contrivances, too much time-wasting and faffing about--let's just shut it down so I can defeat the Big Bad and go home. Stories that question how to define life and consciousness have been done countless times, and in far better ways.

I get it. Personally, I felt really empty while doing Living Memory, because it just felt weird going on a sightseeing tour knowing that we would shut all these terminals down, and the zone's concept also felt like a bad copy of Ultima Thule.
But I get what he is saying. Shadowbringers did a much better job at exploring the moral ambiguity that came with certain topics, while Dawntrail pretended like there is no moral ambiguity to what we were doing. Instead of doing some "sightseeing", I do wish they would have dived into the justness of it all more, and not treated all of the endless as if they were a hive mind sharing all the moral standards and wishes.

But this was also a problem with Tural as a whole. We spent the first few levels of the story learning that different people in Tural have different goals and wishes, yet when Wuk Lamat became Dawnservant, they all cheered to her preaching about smiles and happiness without ever having learned what this actually means. It's just not realistic, which made it seem immature.

I'm just shocked, if anything. Previously, the writers were never afraid to explore moral topics to keep the narrative interesting.

[ovIm]

I get it. Personally, I felt really empty while doing Living Memory, because it just felt weird going on a sightseeing tour knowing that we would shut all these terminals down, and the zone's concept also felt like a bad copy of Ultima Thule.

The entirety of Living Memory had me legit yell at the screen at that point. We have a BBEG who threatens to drain the life force of every living being from every dimension, and we... take a fucking stroll, ride a gondola and eat popcorn so we could "understand how they live" or some shit instead of just, you know, pushing forward and resolving the issue at hand? Plus that we just destroy it all instead of setting Living Memory into a hibernation status until we find a better solution with the moral dilemma presented to us.
Add in how shitty both Erenville and Krile were handled even here, everything about that zone infuriated me.