The death of savage raiding and SE's lack of action

[TaleraRistain]

Cross-Tail Switch does almost 900k in 8 seconds, if you can find me any party that can heal through that without tank LB, I'll be impressed.

I've seen it a couple of times in PF when transition doesn't go well and the healer uses LB3 but man you have to kitchen sink the heck out of it.

[Havenchild]

Cross-Tail Switch does almost 900k in 8 seconds, if you can find me any party that can heal through that without tank LB, I'll be impressed.

I've seen it a couple of times in PF when transition doesn't go well and the healer uses LB3 but man you have to kitchen sink the heck out of it.

What's wild is that a quick youtube search reveals this

[Supersnow845]

You linked 3 articles from yoshi that say literally nothing about the healer population besides a very vague notion of a shortage

“Hmm I can’t say much on this but please give healers a try” isnt exactly a glowing review of the state of healers in the modern game nor is it any sort of feedback acknowledgement. The “go play ultimate” interview is somehow worse because it’s busy actively dismissive

[Aravell]

What's wild is that a quick youtube search reveals this

Seeing that, it's hardly a "PF is lazy and would rather rely on tank LB than heal the mechanic" thing.

It's far more optimal for the tank to clip their GCD than both healers spending the entirety of that attack spamming heals and then not having much mitigation (or MP, in the SCH's case) left for later. This seems to be more of a "lesser damage loss" consideration than a lazy healer issue. Which is kind of expected because the general community sees losing damage as the greatest crime of humanity.

[Havenchild]

You linked 3 articles from yoshi that say literally nothing about the healer population besides a very vague notion of a shortage

“Hmm I can’t say much on this but please give healers a try” isnt exactly a glowing review of the state of healers in the modern game nor is it any sort of feedback acknowledgement. The “go play ultimate” interview is somehow worse because it’s busy actively dismissive

Mr. Math, you are the perfect example of a child that got a 4 in Math but a 2 in English.
You are very happy to introduce math, but lack in critical reading skills.

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Q7: This is a question regarding the fourth floor of Savage (P8S), the Savage content, which includes the DPS check required, is definitely a challenging content, the healing check for the second half of this battle was really tight and compared to Dragonsong Reprise (DSR), I feel that there are certain parts in the second half of the battle contains healing check that is required which is comparable to what Ultimate would require, personally I welcome the increase in healing intensity but it causes the parties to be lack of healers when it comes to PF recruitment (be it progging or weekly clears) so I wonder what is your thoughts and opinion on the matter?

YoshiP: Ok I mean this happened before, but if I give an answer to one question, it won't work on the other one (for some reason). Right, we are told that (healers) are free, which is why healers tend to focus on firepower instead, and we should give healers more situations where they need to heal, and we increased the healing work required... I mean for the entire expansion and we did it but as expected this happens....so what are we supposed to do now hahaha...oh god if any I should be the one trying to discuss with you guys here. Aaaaaaahhh I mean yeah I knew this will definitely happen (long sigh). I mean I thought we've achieved quite a good balance here....(long ponder), Well yeah I mean if I have to start decreasing the difficulty and I'll get comments saying it's too lax (laughs). Well I will need data...either way we did indeed increase the intensity for sure, although this was the balance that was asked of us......I mean this is personal disparity, yeah, there are healers who are completely fine with this tuning, and there are other healers who would go "this is too hard I can't do this".

Yeah I apologize but please allow us to continue ponder on this matter and find out what is best and this is what we can do for now."

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So I think the demands, or what a healer desires in the different encounters, differ per the individuals - so I know there are healers who really want to concentrate on just healing and they really don't want to spend their time attacking or dealing damage. So I think it is a very tough question to provide a perfect answer.
So with the fundamental thinking behind how we're adjusting healers, and this pertains to 5.X and beyond, we have been trying to make it so that healers are more - will require for them to perform more heals - so the content damage that you are receiving becomes a little more intense so that healers are a bit more busy.

But that being said, we also don't want to make the content impossible for players with not as high a skill level to clear. Because if we make it too intense, the number of people who can clear the content will be very limited. We don't want to have a situation where somebody is just healing the whole time, like ALL the time, or like have to HAVE to manage MP constantly.

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You can surmise 2 things from this:

1) The feedback they have gotten from Healers whether by mouth or statistics has made them incredibly hesitant to tune anything in a major way. Likely that there is no SMALL number of people that are upset if they do too much of anything.
2) They do in fact receive feedback that adding more things to Healer role, is compromising PF recruitment. And they likely have statistics to support that.

Even the interviewer acknowledges this in the question. YoshiP echoes this with " Well I will need data...either way we did indeed increase the intensity for sure, although this was the balance that was asked of us......I mean this is personal disparity, [B]yeah, there are healers who are completely fine with this tuning, and there are other healers who would go "this is too hard I can't do this". Yeah I apologize but please allow us to continue ponder on this matter and find out what is best and this is what we can do for now."

The fact that they haven't made any major changes to the role is literal proof that the PF statistics showcase a direct correlation between "more emphasis on healing" and a drop off from the role in PF in it's current state and likely that the drop off is high enough that they haven't pushed any further changes beyond that. Every response across multiple interviews echoes the same notion of this reluctancy to add more Healing or DPS to healer role.

His hesitancy in his responses and the current state of Healer proves the feedback they have gotten is either equally all over the place or the situation is along the lines of "Yeah, we hear people have complaints but when we make any changes to the role, we see a blowback in PF that's more negative than positive or at least neutral so we are going to take it slow and introduce different things mechanically first and see where that goes". If the overall feedback was "these changes are great, we want more" and that was supported with in game statistics, Yoshi and crew would have "leaned into" more DPS and more Healing on the role but they have not done that. We know this, we can literally see that DPS kits didn't change (sans for a single button), and Healers aren't generally more stressed on the role still (for healing). The inaction IS the proof. What is so hard to understand.

[Supersnow845]

I love how childish you are for continuing to stick to a silly little nickname that sounds like a 3 year made up. For the record I’m an anaesthesiologist in real life and graduated from the 2nd highest rated university in Australia. I think my English is perfectly fine for the record but if you think personal insults will make your argument more palatable to me or others then please go ahead because it reads as more pathetic than damning on me anyway

Moving on to your actual renrathas style 4 page word salad the entire thing basically amounts to “I fell for yoshi p’s PR speak and I’m trying to sell it as hard data”. What you have highlighted amounts to nothing else besides saying any change will have some measure of blowback. ooooh aaaaah what an absolute revelation that is. Saying “some people are happy and we don’t want to make it too hard” again is a hollow statement you are drawing your own conclusions from them acting like that’s the exact intention of yoshi p’s words

Following this is just a really flowery way of saying “no changes must mean that everything is perfect therefore there should be no changes” which again is a hollow statement where you basically just worked back from your own conclusion to try to fit yoshi p’s words

Absolutely nothing in that interview shows that they are happy with healers as they stand in terms of PF standings and if you think it does you are just reading your own conclusion (note there is also nothing there explicitly saying they ARENT happy, I’m not trying to draw that conclusion to fit my narrative from the interview like you are)

Do you see I’m not trying to use that hollow word salad of an interview to prove my point like you are because that’s exactly what it is…….a word salad of PR speak, it’s completely hollow and meaningless

[Havenchild]

I love how childish you are for continuing to stick to a silly little nickname that sounds like a 3 year made up. For the record I’m an anaesthesiologist in real life and graduated from the 2nd highest rated university in Australia. I think my English is perfectly fine for the record but if you think personal insults will make your argument more palatable to me or others then please go ahead because it reads as more pathetic than damning on me anyway

Moving on to your actual renrathas style 4 page word salad the entire thing basically amounts to “I fell for yoshi p’s PR speak and I’m trying to sell it as hard data”. What you have highlighted amounts to nothing else besides saying any change will have some measure of blowback. ooooh aaaaah what an absolute revelation that is. Saying “some people are happy and we don’t want to make it too hard” again is a hollow statement you are drawing your own conclusions from them acting like that’s the exact intention of yoshi p’s words

Following this is just a really flowery way of saying “no changes must mean that everything is perfect therefore there should be no changes” which again is a hollow statement where you basically just worked back from your own conclusion to try to fit yoshi p’s words

Absolutely nothing in that interview shows that they are happy with healers as they stand in terms of PF standings and if you think it does you are just reading your own conclusion (note there is also nothing there explicitly saying they ARENT happy, I’m not trying to draw that conclusion to fit my narrative from the interview like you are)

Ok Mr.Math, so even YoshiP's comments on it and lack of changes on the DPS kits on Healers or the lack of healing intensity changes beyond Abyssos / Anabaseios, when directly answering a question about the healer shortage, can't convince you that they are seeing negative feedback when making any changes. Got it, understood, you get the situation better than the devs, it's all PR mumbo jumbo.

There comes a point where people don't care to be convinced otherwise and you are there Mr.Math. I will no longer care to respond to you. It's largely a waste of time.

[Supersnow845]

Ok Mr.Math, so even YoshiP's comments on it and lack of changes on the DPS kits on Healers or the lack of healing intensity changes beyond Abyssos / Anabaseios, when directly answering a question about the healer shortage, can't convince you that they are seeing negative feedback when making any changes. Got it, understood, you get the situation better than the devs, it's all PR mumbo jumbo.

There comes a point where people don't care to be convinced otherwise and you are there Mr.Math. I will no longer respond to you.

Well considering the devs still can’t figure out why people don’t like DT and wuk Lamat and continue to deflect to weird PR reasons like “we didn’t make her aggressive enough” blatant trust of the devs PR speak at this point is a bigger indication you don’t know what’s going on

Awwwwwww you won’t reply to me anymore, damn but you’ve given like 5 pages to aravell, do you not appreciate being simultaneously told you are wrong from three different angles, damn you aravell you stole my fun

[Somnolence]

Almost like dps who don't want to play healers, still wont play healers

And how would you switch to healers now? Get 710 penta and start from scratch? What about old ults, refarm BiS? And FRU - there is no time left to gear healer for that if you are PFing.

Gearing is what is gatekeeping role flexing. DPS and tanks are sitting in PF and waiting for healers due to sunken costs.

[MisterNublet]

And how would you switch to healers now? Get 710 penta and start from scratch? What about old ults, refarm BiS? And FRU - there is no time left to gear healer for that if you are PFing.

Gearing is what is gatekeeping role flexing. DPS and tanks are sitting in PF and waiting for healers due to sunken costs.

There are a few things, but every one of them would go against CBU3's attempts at stretching out player's subscription. It was why I created savage alts so I could have multiple roles to play with and not suffer from being gatekept by gear.