Give healers dps

[Jeeqbit]

Honestly, I have to ask, does it matter if the healer makes a mistake and someone dies? There's no permadeath, or even any penalty to dying at all except wasted time.

It doesn't matter unless it's high-end farm content where they expect you to not be letting that happen (and it has been a problem occasionally in my time playing, where there's a healer in clear or farm parties that isn't healing enough and the party gets frustrated).

However, if a healer is doing that in, say, a dungeon, there is always the possibility they will call it out. People don't like the damage down either.

Usually when someone has died it's not been due to me doing DPS but people do like to blame it on the healer doing that anyway. And it can be possible they are right in certain cases because, although rare, there are dungeons and raids both that actually have intense healing moments, even if they get drowned out by the volume of content that only requires an odd oGCD heal.

I think there are also cases (including recently) where I've had to heal people due to them making lots of mistakes. And doing that means you're losing out on your damage dealing and "underperforming" by the metrics people care about in this game. So healers having the lowest damage contribution helps with convincing yourself to just patch up all their mistakes because you're probably at the bottom of these metrics whatever you do.

"You job isn't necessarily to heal the party, but to keep them alive. And yes there's a difference."

That's obvious to people with a rounded experience of the game. That sort of sentence is aimed at people who are new to healing or haven't played all the roles (properly) in the game and are spamming cure to get people to 100% HP.

[IDontPetLalas]

You know when healers had cleric stance and more dps tools the community cried and complained it was too hard to do both.....funny how the consequences and sins of our fathers work. Moral of the story. Gamers really don't know what they want, they think they want it,but they really don't.

Funny, I didn't cry and complain. Neither did other healers that I happened to know. I do agree that some did, however saying that it was "the community"? That's misleading in my view, and what was delivered didn't match what I would have wanted - we did complain when we lost a good number of our skills on our main healer at the time (SCH)- but didn't get much of a reaction at that time. Not until, that it- other jobs started getting simplified.

And putting up that trite "Gamers really don't know what they want, they think they want it,but they really don't" is a rather condescending view. Customers may or may not know how to tell game designers exactly what they want, but they often know what they like or what they don't like . Whomever designs the game is supposed to figure out the the solution, it's part of their job. It's also part of their job to find out how their product best matches whatever their "customer" wants/likes/needs.

We have often communicated what we want, what we like or don't like about healer design. We don't even have to agree amongst ourselves- although of course that would simplify things. What isn't clear - at least for me- is the healer that Square designs for, whether they have aver heard any of this feedback, and what the future is going forwards.

[Supersnow845]

It doesn't matter unless it's high-end farm content where they expect you to not be letting that happen (and it has been a problem occasionally in my time playing, where there's a healer in clear or farm parties that isn't healing enough and the party gets frustrated).

However, if a healer is doing that in, say, a dungeon, there is always the possibility they will call it out. People don't like the damage down either.

Usually when someone has died it's not been due to me doing DPS but people do like to blame it on the healer doing that anyway. And it can be possible they are right in certain cases because, although rare, there are dungeons and raids both that actually have intense healing moments, even if they get drowned out by the volume of content that only requires an odd oGCD heal.

I think there are also cases (including recently) where I've had to heal people due to them making lots of mistakes. And doing that means you're losing out on your damage dealing and "underperforming" by the metrics people care about in this game. So healers having the lowest damage contribution helps with convincing yourself to just patch up all their mistakes because you're probably at the bottom of these metrics whatever you do.
That's obvious to people with a rounded experience of the game. That sort of sentence is aimed at people who are new to healing or haven't played all the roles (properly) in the game and are spamming cure to get people to 100% HP.

And I mean we really shouldn’t be designing jobs around people who don’t understand how a job works. The point is to learn the job, not have the job be made unable to fail giving you nothing to learn

[Jeeqbit]

Funny, I didn't cry and complain. Neither did other healers that I happened to know. I do agree that some did, however saying that it was "the community"? That's misleading in my view, and what was delivered didn't match what I would have wanted

I agree. The moment I picked up Conjurer (so I could unlock PLD) and got Cleric Stance, I started using it and had no problems. I think there were people who found it difficult and annoying, but it certainly wasn't everyone. But the developers just decided to go in the direction of caution and reducing stress regardless.

What isn't clear - at least for me- is the healer that Square designs for

It's pretty obvious who they design for. They design for a healer that has barely played the game and barely understands it.

This is why they replaced their healer who tested content with a more casual healer, because they'd "become too good" which can only mean they were spamming their attack instead of healing, since that's what confident healers do.

They say that if staff are too good at content they try to let their staff who don't or barely play the game to try it, such as from production and marketing departments and if they struggle with it then they make it easier.

They've said a lot recently about how they are trying to "reduce stress" in numerous statements and interviews and how that has been their long-term goal. Stress hasn't been the focus of those statements, but if you read carefully you'll see they've used it quite a lot of late to communicate their mindset.

whether they have aver heard any of this feedback, and what the future is going forwards.

Actually they have heard this feedback. This is from the job guide:
"To increase attack variation, we have also added Glare IV, which can be executed up to three times after using Presence of Mind."
"To increase attack variation, we have added Baneful Impaction, which can be executed after using Chain Strategem"
"to increase attack variation, a new offensive ability has been added which can be executed after using Divination."
"To increase attack variation during periods when healing isn't required, new actions such as Eukrasian Dyskrasia and Psyche have been added."

[Aravell]

What isn't clear - at least for me- is the healer that Square designs for, whether they have aver heard any of this feedback, and what the future is going forwards.

I suspect that the person meant to consolidate and send feedback up the chain fell asleep partway through.

Because the most common feedback is "Give us extra damage buttons and more reason to use our GCD healing to break up the monotony of 1 button spam", so they probably fell asleep halfway through and fell on their 'send' button after typing in "Give us extra damage button".

[BunnyQueen]

I suspect that the person meant to consolidate and send feedback up the chain fell asleep partway through.

Because the most common feedback is "Give us extra damage buttons and more reason to use our GCD healing to break up the monotony of 1 button spam", so they probably fell asleep halfway through and fell on their 'send' button after typing in "Give us extra damage button".

I would love for them to nerf OGCDs just so that GCD heals are needed more. Also just require more healing in general.

[Gullis]

seeing all the complaints about healers and such makes me wonder what type of runs people are having lol
gives me the impression it's all flawless with only needing to heal unavoidable damage

more damaging options would be neat, but they'd have to address button bloat I imagine

I mean honestly, in the vast majority of my roulettes, people play well enough, to the point where I might aswell not be there. Especially in expert with the new gear

[AvoSturmfaust]

In the last 3years i played this game, i saw MORE way way more bad healers then dds and tanks, i can understand the statement that healer want more dps or a better dps rotation but right now 90% i saw (and yea its a personal statistic) were too dumb to even press 2 buttons so i personally rather dont see healers touched and yea you adjust classes around the majority not a minor fraction

[Supersnow845]

In the last 3years i played this game, i saw MORE way way more bad healers then dds and tanks, i can understand the statement that healer want more dps or a better dps rotation but right now 90% i saw (and yea its a personal statistic) were too dumb to even press 2 buttons so i personally rather dont see healers touched and yea you adjust classes around the majority not a minor fraction

There is absolutely zero chance 90% of the healers you saw weren’t at least passable

This is also ignoring how you interpreted a mistake. If the tank dies did you check their mitigation, did you check the DPS damage. Even if you misinterpret all mistakes to the healer a 90% “mess up rate” in your daily roulettes is just beyond exaggeration

[AvoSturmfaust]

There is absolutely zero chance 90% of the healers you saw weren’t at least passable

This is also ignoring how you interpreted a mistake. If the tank dies did you check their mitigation, did you check the DPS damage. Even if you misinterpret all mistakes to the healer a 90% “mess up rate” in your daily roulettes is just beyond exaggeration

Its about Damage not Mistakes, i never said they healing bad or anything its straight up damage and if i check logs and see dot uptime 40-60%, uptime around 60-70% in fights were you dont need to move too much, its bad its straight up bad and this includes from daily roulettes (which i do not so often) to savage raids and ex trials