Would tanks be okay if SE swapped the damage between tank and healers?

[Naoki34]

So I was wondering would tanks be okay if say healers did more damage than tanks, and tanks did around the same damage healers do right now so healers are not sidelined in the speed running meta?

I ask because I said overall this would be a messed up nerf, but was wondering if others felt the same.

Edit: I agree adjustments do have to be made but I just don't see what really could be done that really solves the core issue healers have atm which is engagement that does not ripple into lower end content.

Personally I think having such wide access to in combat raises does add to trivialize content at times, and I do think overall tanks do have far too high sustain. Just idk if adjusting that would bolster the healing role per-se or just make it more stressful for many players because that is a sudden responsibility shift that has not been present in the game for a long time.

What suggestions does the tanking community have that could increase the overall enjoy and engagement with healers without impacting tanks that much.

...

Quite frankly, I don't care if a heal, tank or dog Dps more than me, depending on what I'm playing.

As long as the dungeon is finished in 15 minutes, what really bothers me are the groups of tourists where: People die at every boss, low dps or it goes at the same speed with the Scions because there might as well Leave and go do it with the Scions...

[Alice_Rivers]

That is, you need to heal 3x-4x the amount of damage, but you got 2x++ the amount of time, too. Take your time, just make sure you do heal everything, the next round of damage is coming.

I do wonder if that's such a good idea, static regen counts for a lot of healing potential and I think going too long between damage bursts is just going to shift the paradigm from the kind of massive healing capacity that healers can bring to bear to just maintaining regens instead. I would prefer, and feel more engaged, if the system encouraged me to think about which heals I apply to deal with a given situation. That might also call for an adjustment to how various heals work but if the game plays to that then I'm okay with it.

[Ramiee]

Doing more damage by nature of having more gear is a pretty pointless comparison especially if you consider in statics healers are last in gear priority

I wonder where they are in glove priority.

[AnjouMaaka]

That's literally asking SE to completely change how enmity works, on top of asking for what you are asking for. Enmity is partially based on how much damage is done. I don't know the exact math on it but I imagine it would probably be something along the lines of:

base enmity generation + % of damage done

Never mind the fact that the entire reason your healing is so "not fun" as described is because you still can't keep dark knights alive during wall to wall dungeon pulls to save your life when said healing is actually required, proving to Square Enix that it's still not safe to nerf warrior.

[Supersnow845]

That's literally asking SE to completely change how enmity works, on top of asking for what you are asking for. Enmity is partially based on how much damage is done. I don't know the exact math on it but I imagine it would probably be something along the lines of:

base enmity generation + % of damage done

Never mind the fact that the entire reason your healing is so "not fun" as described is because you still can't keep dark knights alive during wall to wall dungeon pulls to save your life when said healing is actually required, proving to Square Enix that it's still not safe to nerf warrior.

You don’t understand how tank stance works apparently

[Doomfist]

As a tank main, I'd rather do less damage than a healer but still have a fun rotation, than do DPS level damage but have one button spam gameplay OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH

All that changes is a number, hopefully if this change goes through, more people will play healer and I get quicker fills in PF

[AnjouMaaka]

You don’t understand how tank stance works apparently

I understand how tank stance works. I wouldn't be a tank main if I didn't. Tank stance simply states that it greatly enhances enmity generation. How tank stance boosts enmity generation isn't part of the equation here because my point is to show that the OP's suggestion is bad and poorly thought out. It fixes healer design at the cost of everyone else's fun. Even with tank stance, it would likely be a whole mess like what we had at the start of this expansion where they buffed tank enmity because even with tank stance, pictomancer's damage was affecting the % of damage done part of that equation too easily. If they have that much trouble getting enmity correct with things as is, you really want them to do what the OP is suggesting? Tanks won't be able to hold aggro at all.

[Supersnow845]

I understand how tank stance works. I wouldn't be a tank main if I didn't. Tank stance simply states that it greatly enhances enmity generation. How tank stance boosts enmity generation isn't part of the equation here because my point is to show that the OP's suggestion is bad and poorly thought out. It fixes healer design at the cost of everyone else's fun. Even with tank stance, it would likely be a whole mess like what we had at the start of this expansion where they buffed tank enmity because even with tank stance, pictomancer's damage was affecting the % of damage done part of that equation too easily. If they have that much trouble getting enmity correct with things as is, you really want them to do what the OP is suggesting? Tanks won't be able to hold aggro at all.

Pictomancers damage wasn’t messed up square just pandered to bad tanks who spent all of endwalker walking up and looking at the trash and getting agro, shockingly when a class has front loaded damage you actually have to group the trash and give them some damage before moving on. That’s not a flaw in angry generation that’s a flaw in people’s ability to tank. If you do half and AOE then run halfway across the map it’s not the Pictomancers fault if they rip agro.

Changing tanks and healer damage would do literally nothing to how ridiculously high tank agro generation is unless you are really really bad at tanking and are too used to EW’s design where you barely even tanked

Ironic coming from the person constantly preaching that tank sustain is the only defence poor tank mains have against the encroaching bad healing dictatorship or something

[Shurrikhan]

That's literally asking SE to completely change how enmity works, on top of asking for what you are asking for. Enmity is partially based on how much damage is done. I don't know the exact math on it but I imagine it would probably be something along the lines of:

base enmity generation + % of damage done

Never mind the fact that the entire reason your healing is so "not fun" as described is because you still can't keep dark knights alive during wall to wall dungeon pulls to save your life when said healing is actually required, proving to Square Enix that it's still not safe to nerf warrior.

There is a minute amount of additional enmity per action against an enemy or benefiting a player the enemies are engaged against. But by minute I mean the value of ~100 damage. Vs. the total amount done by, say, Xenoglossy.

The % of damage done is the far, far larger part, and --far more importantly-- it is modified by your Enmity stance's multiplier. The stance does not supply a mere flat value.

The % modifier amount they apparently thought was "too little" was 1000% enmity. Now it's higher with AoE openers having a further, multiplicatively stacking modifier atop that.

proving to Square Enix that it's still not safe to nerf warrior.

Then I suppose it's still not safe to have anything less than an 8-Warrior party?

And, most importantly...

That's literally asking SE to completely change how enmity works

No part of the OP asks, no matter how indirectly, for a change to how Enmity works.

We tanks have enough Enmity to spend more than 80% of our AoE time idle and still hold threat. In single target, that falls only to perhaps 70%. It's still tremendously excessive. A nerf of ~15% dps would in no way require a change to Enmity formulas or its surrounding systems. We'd still have an excess of, at minimum, some 300%.

[AnjouMaaka]

Pictomancers damage wasn’t messed up square just pandered to bad tanks who spent all of endwalker walking up and looking at the trash and getting agro, shockingly when a class has front loaded damage you actually have to group the trash and give them some damage before moving on. That’s not a flaw in angry generation that’s a flaw in people’s ability to tank. If you do half and AOE then run halfway across the map it’s not the Pictomancers fault if they rip agro.

Changing tanks and healer damage would do literally nothing to how ridiculously high tank agro generation is unless you are really really bad at tanking and are too used to EW’s design where you barely even tanked

Ironic coming from the person constantly preaching that tank sustain is the only defence poor tank mains have against the encroaching bad healing dictatorship or something

I think you've lost the entire point of the thread just from reading that. Not my problem. They buffed enmity generation because of it. Get over it. Clearly not a skill issue if it got addressed by the devs.