The death of savage raiding and SE's lack of action

[Raven2014]

I raid on 4 chars, 1 in static and 3 on PF. I usually finish all 4 tours by Thursday at the latest. So excuse me when I say I don't think it's as death as you're claiming it to be.

[Sensui]

I raid on 4 chars, 1 in static and 3 on PF. I usually finish all 4 tours by Thursday at the latest. So excuse me when I say I don't think it's as death as you're claiming it to be.

Instant gratification generation problem.

[Raven2014]

Healer main, would LOVE to do savage raiding but no one actually cares to teach people who have never done it before. That content is extremely gatekept from a lot of players.

I wasn't taught by anyone either, and I can say I know NO raiders who has been taught by anyone else in games, and I know A LOT of raiders.

What is the problem of teaching yourself? It's not like this game is hard, and healer is the easiest role to play if I'm being honest. If you want to learn how to play your class, technically you should already have a pretty good idea how your job works by the time you hit 100, assuming you didn't use a level boot. Even if you don't, there are tons of guide out there that will teach you everything from how to gear to how to manage your CDs. And there are also tons of guide to teach you everything you need for each and every fights, you just have to watch them and learn. And then there is a bunch of learning party for you to apply what you had learnt.


So I'm not sure about what you are asking here? First you heal some dungeon. Then you heal some normal raid, then you heal a few EXs, and you'll be ready to heal savage within a week or two assuming you have put in some genuine and real effort to learn, at least for the first two floor. I'm pretty sure that's how 99% of the players learn how to raid, so why can't you?

Tell me which healer you want to play, and I'll link you some comprehensive guide for it.

Tell me which fight you're trying to learn, and I'll link you at least 3 videos that will teach you the inside out of it.

[Havenchild]

This is completely going against the reality that Yoshi P himself acknowledged a healer shortage just 2 tiers ago and also begged people to give healers a try.

Are you saying that somehow the healer population surged from a population low enough for the producer to speak up about it to a healthy sustainable population in less than 2 years? To the point that there's no longer a concern about it?

There's a lot of evidence that you're overlooking to try and make your view of reality to become real. Like I said before, your view may be true for your own narrow circle, but that doesn't make it a hard fact, and cherrypicking your data doesn't change that.

Edit: Not sure why you have to make everything about the healerstrike, but you do what you like.

You should go back to what my initial response was, who it was to and what I said if you are failing to understand why I keep returning to the point of healer strike being ineffective.
And yes, based off current numbers of clears week 1, I am indeed saying that more healers cleared this tier than previous savage raid tiers (least in the last expansion) for sure. Thus the logical conclusion is that the healer strike is ineffective but that is no surprise as largely it was a forum movement which doesn't have as much impact on PF.

Lastly, I will disagree with your supposition that I have claimed "there's no longer a concern" as I have never claimed the fact. To Mr.Maths singular unrelated point, a shortage of ALL support roles still exists. This is not due to the healer strike OR people thinking support roles are just garbage to play however, nothing specifically measurable that is in comparison. MMO players ,simply, on average, will choose to play DPS compared to Support roles. That's the logic every MMO game ever has shown us and for FFXIV an issue that has consistently remained almost it's entire raiding scene career.

Now if you want to say my view is subjective, that the healer strike specifically is a failure, then ok I guess?
But the numbers simply don't support the logic.

[Supersnow845]

You should go back to what my initial response was, who it was to and what I said if you are failing to understand why I keep returning to the point of healer strike being ineffective.
And yes, based off current numbers of clears week 1, I am indeed saying that more healers cleared this tier than previous savage raid tiers (least in the last expansion) for sure. Thus the logical conclusion is that the healer strike is ineffective but that is no surprise as largely it was a forum movement which doesn't have as much impact on PF.

Lastly, I will disagree with your supposition that I have claimed "there's no longer a concern" as I have never claimed the fact. To Mr.Maths singular unrelated point, a shortage of ALL support roles still exists. This is not due to the healer strike OR people thinking support roles are just garbage to play however, nothing specifically measurable that is in comparison. MMO players ,simply, on average, will choose to play DPS compared to Support roles. That's the logic every MMO game ever has shown us and for FFXIV an issue that has consistently remained almost it's entire raiding scene career.

Now if you want to say my view is subjective, that the healer strike specifically is a failure, then ok I guess?
But the numbers simply don't support the logic.

Your last edit is Exactly why we are disagreeing with you

You are saying stuff about the healer strike because that’s the point you opened with that we replied to…….fair enough, we probably should have specifically mentioned we aren’t discussing the healer strike to give you a choice to bow out of the conversation or engage with our change of direction. However as it stands now you are connecting points to the healer strike we never made. We never said your view that the healer strike is a failure was subjective (hell as much as I championed it I don’t think the current shortage is caused by the strike at all, like I said I think it’s caused by larger clear rates bringing a baseline shortage to the forefront), we said that your view that there is nothing wrong with healers or nothing wrong with healers in PF is wrong because the listening posts are currently discussing problems with it endlessly

You aren’t wrong for being confused and annoyed we pivoted and dragged you along, but you are wrong for continuing to link points we made to the healer striker when we explicitly have told you like 5 times we aren’t talking about the healer strike

[Aravell]

MMO players ,simply, on average, will choose to play DPS compared to Support roles. That's the logic every MMO game ever has shown us and for FFXIV an issue that has consistently remained almost it's entire raiding scene career.

And yet the shortage has gotten so bad that multiple places are talking about it.

This isn't just a forum echo chamber thing. People who laughed about the healerstrike are also acknowledging a shortage, and it's still early in the tier, it can only get worse from here.

You keep saying that numbers support you, yet you don't have these numbers, no one here does, only SE themselves have the numbers.

You're also pointedly ignoring the fact that it's getting really bad on JP, the place where people think healers are greatly enjoyed. 2ch is complaining about bad healers and also lack of healers joining PFs. There's been documented instances of people offering millions of gil for a healer to help their PF. Why aren't people offering gil to tanks if they're equally as scarce?

[Maltothoris]

Honestly, the thing I', looking forward to would be the next tier. With how easy this tier, I wouldn't be surprise if there's going to be some complacency as what happened before Abyssos and then when it's turn for things to be hitting much harder but that reminds to been seen for another 5 months.

[Sensui]

Waiting for tanks and healers isn't anything new to DT. It isn't anything new to MMOs. It was the same in FF11 and it'll be the same in 8.0 and beyond.

[Havenchild]

Your last edit is Exactly why we are disagreeing with you

You are saying stuff about the healer strike because that’s the point you opened with that we replied to…….fair enough, we probably should have specifically mentioned we aren’t discussing the healer strike to give you a choice to bow out of the conversation or engage with our change of direction. However as it stands now you are connecting points to the healer strike we never made. We never said your view that the healer strike is a failure was subjective (hell as much as I championed it I don’t think the current shortage is caused by the strike at all, like I said I think it’s caused by larger clear rates bringing a baseline shortage to the forefront), we said that your view that there is nothing wrong with healers or nothing wrong with healers in PF is wrong because the listening posts are currently discussing problems with it endlessly

You aren’t wrong for being confused and annoyed we pivoted and dragged you along, but you are wrong for continuing to link points we made to the healer striker when we explicitly have told you like 5 times we aren’t talking about the healer strike

Mr.Math, we already know you couldn't follow the initial reply I made to someone being sarcastic about the Healer strike. You don't have to keep reminding us how much you struggle to follow the conversation, we get it. My point has always been about the healer strike being a failure. If you chose to respond to my comment on the healer strike, do so in the context of that if you care to debate my point. Since you have no context to stand on, suddenly I'm the one twisting anyone else's words, when mine have always been focused on one specific point. Go back to page 7, it's right there for you. You are the one who tried to come up with math to strawman away from my point which has always been

-THE HEALER STRIKE FAILED-

to talk about there is a healer shortage overall, which has literally ALWAYS been an issue.

[Supersnow845]

Waiting for supports is normal, waiting for one support over the other in a meaningful difference across all types of content and being back up by the surveys is a problem

If supports being waited on is just universal and expected why don’t we have constant outcry’s at how long people are waiting for tanks

Hell most of the listening posts report tanks filling before even physical ranged

Mr.Math, we already know you couldn't follow the initial reply I made to someone being sarcastic about the Healer strike. You don't have to keep reminding us how much you struggle to follow the conversation, we get it. My point has always been about the healer strike being a failure. If you chose to respond to my comment on the healer strike, do so in the context of that if you care to debate my point. Since you have no context to stand on, suddenly I'm the one twisting anyone else's words, when mine have always been focused on one specific point. Go back to page 7, it's right there for you. You are the one who tried to come up with math to strawman away from my point which has always been

-THE HEALER STRIKE FAILED-

to talk about there is a healer shortage overall.

Okay fine the healer strike failed to affect PF queues, there is your precious win. Now if you’d kindly stop retroactively linking points we didn’t make to the healer strike that would be fantastic. Your last paragraph of the last comment is a blatant lie and caused by you being unable to realise that being unable to pivot in a 4 page argument isn’t a strength