Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Kaziek]

The game previously had a very rudimentary lighting solution and now it has a very good one. There are of course real issues that should be addressed with the models and lighting, I have an accepted bug report open on one of them right now, but I do think some people are just very surprised at how drastically the look of their character is effected by different environments and conditions, as it should be.

I think I have to disagree here. Why is that as it should be? This is a game after all, and a stylized one at that. Making characters look worse under some conditions in the pursuit of realism is not the best course in my opinion.

Your photo reference is also a really good example of what many have a problem with currently. Those kinds of shadows make sense in that scene with it being indoors and under harsh directly overhead lights. But those same kinds of shadows are often cast on some character faces during standard daytime lighting, which isn't realistic or appealing.

[CidHeiral]

This is a game after all, and a stylized one at that. Making characters look worse under some conditions in the pursuit of realism is not the best course in my opinion.

Fair enough, but I'm not quite sure what you mean. Characters will always look worse under some conditions. The same thing happened before the graphical update ever existed.



That's a bit of an extreme example, I didn't bookmark the master post of terrible pre-7.0 lighting examples that someone around here keeps posting, but I'm sure you get my point. I'm not seeing a way around that without a radical reinvention of the game's visual style.

Also, keep in mind the shadows were softer in the first benchmark and were made more harsh due to player feedback. Personally I preferred the softer shadows so I'm at least partially with you there.

Your photo reference is also a really good example of what many have a problem with currently. Those kinds of shadows make sense in that scene with it being indoors and under harsh directly overhead lights. But those same kinds of shadows are often cast on some character faces during standard daytime lighting, which isn't realistic or appealing.

You bring up a good point that I realize I was unclear about in my previous post. I was referring more to the way the shadows were being cast across the face than the actual darkness of the shadows. I haven't seen any standard daytime screenshots that are that dark, but I'd be happy to take a look if you have any examples.

In a number of cases with the update, lighting on the old face did this, but the new face has been turned into an unnatural shape with crease running inwards to the centre of the lip instead of outwards to the edges, and the light falls accordingly.

I see what you mean and that definitely looks like an issue that should be corrected. That is why I made sure to mention such issues exist in my previous post.

[Kaziek]

Fair enough, but I'm not quite sure what you mean. Characters will always look worse under some conditions. The same thing happened before the graphical update ever existed.

That's a bit of an extreme example, I didn't bookmark the master post of terrible pre-7.0 lighting examples that someone around here keeps posting, but I'm sure you get my point. I'm not seeing a way around that without a radical reinvention of the game's visual style.

Also, keep in mind the shadows were softer in the first benchmark and were made more harsh due to player feedback. Personally I preferred the softer shadows so I'm at least partially with you there.



You bring up a good point that I realize I was unclear about in my previous post. I was referring more to the way the shadows were being cast across the face than the actual darkness of the shadows. I haven't seen any standard daytime screenshots that are that dark, but I'd be happy to take a look if you have any examples.

I think using extreme examples is a great way of getting the point across! You're absolutely right about weird lighting like that always being in the game. But like I've said before that lighting was generally only in areas like The Gold Saucer that have "artificial" overhead lighting, and didn't really come up very often.




Here are a few examples from The Mist that would have had a very neutral effect on faces in the previous lighting that now cast harsh shadows. Some of my issues with it are due to model and normal map issues, but the lighting definitely plays a part in the problem. I understand that the more accurate lighting will make certain things look different, but the very swollen look that the current implementation gives to some faces is to me undesirable. So when it comes down to it the thing I take issue with isn't those weird instances of lighting exist, (as you said it's always been a thing in XIV) but rather that they have become much more common than they were before.

[CidHeiral]

I don't recall people complaining specifically about shadows in the first benchmark - rather, the lighting in general was broken because it was making characters look translucent. At least, that was my primary issue with it.

Oh I absolutely recall people complaining about the soft shadows. There wasn't much people weren't complaining about.

I understand that the more accurate lighting will make certain things look different, but the very swollen look that the current implementation gives to some faces is to me undesirable. So when it comes down to it the thing I take issue with isn't those weird instances of lighting exist, (as you said it's always been a thing in XIV) but rather that they have become much more common than they were before.

I see, thank you for the thoughful explanation. To me the under eye area looks a little odd but other than that the shadows are falling as I would expect them to given the lighting and that head shape, but I understand this is all a matter of perception and personal preference. I have a better idea of where you're coming from now though.

So if you could wave a magic wand and change the lighting somehow, how would you like it changed? Assuming a complete rollback to the previous lighting is off the table.