Fine, Bloodwhetting is too OP

[CaedemSanguis]

No matter how 'confident' you are in your abilities, being good in one role is always going to come at the cost of being even better at another. It's called deskilling, and it's true of any procedural task. If you want to be the best DPS player you can be, then you have to invest your time into playing DPS and maintain that focus. The same is true for tanking.

Currently, it's not worthwhile to be a skilled tank because the game does not reward it. It is, however worthwhile to be a skilled DPS.

"however worthwhile to be a skilled DPS" in what way

[Shurrikhan]

Greater total contribution.

Because so much of tank sustain in 8-man content goes to waste (no reward in additional healer attacks, since they're already typically capped on offensive uptime), there is too little difference between a mid and great tank in total contribution from particularly good use of defensives to make up for the greater difference in total contribution between a mid and great DPS in damage dealt than between a mid and great tank.

As such, DPS more rewards your party for placing its skilled players in that role -- or, more rewards players for becoming skilled in that role (as compared to tanks or healers).

[CKNovel]

????????????
I can press question mark too

"It's not worthwile to be a skilled tank, however worthwhile to be a skilled DPS".
"Currently" with the current jokes of DPS check.

I've read nonsense but this one takes the cake. And of course still no facts, numbers to back up that claim.
I've seen enough, thanks for the good laugh.

[Lyth]

...

The question marks were for you putting forward a quote that was never stated in the thread. Unless you were quoting yourself, of course.

So long as you have a group of eight players able to play team jumprope, raid DPS is the only thing that matters. Even after you make the check, having higher DPS totals means that you bypass mechanics and clear more efficiently. Tanking, as it stands, confers next to no additional benefit for skilled play. So long as someone can press the invuln button at the correct timestamp, it doesn't really matter who you have in that role. That's the problem with tanking. And doubling down on bad design choices and overpowered mitigation/sustain tools is what's reinforcing this status quo. Tanking has become a culture of mediocrity.

[CaedemSanguis]

Greater total contribution.

Because so much of tank sustain in 8-man content goes to waste (no reward in additional healer attacks, since they're already typically capped on offensive uptime), there is too little difference between a mid and great tank in total contribution from particularly good use of defensives to make up for the greater difference in total contribution between a mid and great DPS in damage dealt than between a mid and great tank.

As such, DPS more rewards your party for placing its skilled players in that role -- or, more rewards players for becoming skilled in that role (as compared to tanks or healers).

In a good group, dps do 12% (brd-dnc)-15% of the damage, tanks do 10%-12% of the damage, I dont feel more useful parsing 99 on drg rather than on gnb ?
And even the high end optimization is not that hard on most dps classes, i'll argue that the 6-2 drk rotation is harder than at least half of the dps classes ?

I dont understand ?

[Lyth]

Monowheel is listed just before the primal mounts, by the way.

In a good group, tank damage isn't overlapping with physical ranged. Tanks haven't had competitive damage output since early Stormblood, and it's just gotten worse with every expansion. I'm sorry to say, but this game is definitely biased towards DPS.

Out of curiosity, though, after DT's MP nerfs DRK is down to 7.2 spenders every two minutes. Is it really accurate to still call it a 2/6? It's more like a 2/5 now.

[CKNovel]

As if the mount meant anything.
Anyone can clear savage, including casuals. Especially this tier, I've been helping casual groups on various jobs.

Lyth, with all respects, you have no interest in playing tank or motivation as you've shared with us.
And since you want to play the post history game, perhaps you should try to apply your own words:

The way I see this escalating is that you will see more and more people trying to sabotage other players' job designs to get ahead. SE should start actively screening feedback based off of who actually plays the jobs in question.

[Lyth]

With all due respect, I've cleared raid content on WAR and DRK for much longer than either of you. I don't need to submit my curriculum vitae to post in here. We're also talking about role design rather than job design. Feel free to point out what competitive edge you think I would gain out of seeing these changes. If anything, I'm telling you outright that DPS offers significantly more raid value, and that I want this to change so that tanks can offer more impact.

If you still have something of substance to offer on the discussion points at hand, by all means. The current design of tanking is poor and offers little in the way of skill expression. Progressive inflation of mitigation and sustain toolkits is trivialising encounters. The focus should be on making button presses more meaningful and more nuanced. If anyone can do it, it's not worth doing. The status quo needs to change.

[CKNovel]

With all due respect, I've cleared raid content on WAR and DRK for much longer than either of you. I don't need to submit my curriculum vitae to post in here..

You don't need to post your curriculum vitae but for some reason you feel you need to hide it.
This is quite hypocritical after digging in player profile and post history.

A long experience doesn't equal a good experience. You can play for 20 years without ever pushing your capacities but one guy with 1 year of experience can outclass you.

Your opinion is flawed as long as you lack critical knowledge of tank role and gameplay.
Play tank in DSR/TOP, that's where the value of Tank skill will be highlighted the most.

[Lyth]

I've noticed that every time the discussion around Bloodwhetting comes up, you seem to go out of your way to try and shut down the discussion. You were doing this as well in the Warrior Rework discussion thread last week until everyone else had enough with it. Even to this day, your contributions amount to simply 'nerfs are bad' and 'tanks are fine'.

If you still have points to discuss around why you think Bloodwhetting, Shake it Off, and Holmgang are acceptable in their current form, then by all means. Tanking and healing will not improve until the design philosophy changes and the defensive powercreep gets reined back.