Yoshi-P tells PC Gamer that he is "not shocked" by mixed DT reception

[SteakDriven]

it is not about confident.. Zero wasn't confident and act awkward with people,

the issue is the character it self.. it doesn't have the capability to be a ruler of herself rather than Tural nation..
Wuk lamat died in the eyes of story enjoyers

She's more of a warrior / ambassador than a leader - which is why she became co-rulers with her brother.
Dawntrail. Secretly based.

[ZavosEsperian]

Dawntrail. Secretly based.

AKA Extremely Cringe

[OMGJesuis66]

-snip-

I'm not even the person you quoted, but, truth be told, I agree with him. People can be negative, criticise in search of improvement, that's important. Express dissatisfaction is important.

The problem is that every criticism, even those that try to sound eloquent, sound incredibly disingenuous. People in this forum argue about "plotholes" made by their head cannons. They make mountains of what is a hill of each problem DT has. They disregard and trash-talk when someone speak of positive aspects of DT. They critique some aspects of DT while praising prior expansions same aspects, even the flaws. They make a scapegoat of an okay character to put all flaws onto it, when it's obvious not their fault of the problem that exist. They claim the story is simple and yet every argument the argue stuff as if they didn't even understood the story.

Hells, even WoW Shadowlands criticism of its own players at least had a better foundation than people making critiques of DT. It was even more polite too. Here? It feels like a tantrum. Why wouldn't people be dismissive towards it?

Reviews on Steam, as divise as they are, still show over 50% positive. Today, I spoke with a person that had just gotten in Living Memory and they were excited, they said SE outdid themselves this expansion and its good. They were happy, but those who have been enjoying it, are just playing the game and not sulking in the internet to yell dissatisfaction/satisfaction. But that doesn't matter. Only the negative echo chamber matters.

In sum, Dawntrail has its flaws, it deserves criticism over its flaws so SE can improve, but A LOT of the criticism is undeserving and those pile up over the genuine problems and now people just don't bother listening to the naysayers anymore. It isn't hard to understand why someone is dismissive, nor why all of the opinions are fractured. Those set in the "expansion trash" do the same towards anything positive and even try to mock someone just enjoying themselves.

But yeah, it is what it is.

[gllt]

People can't be held wholly responsible for the behavior of every single person that might roll up and share an opinion with them, on any side of the discussion. At a certain point you have to look past attitudes or not look at feedback at all. All data is a mess. You don't yell at the data, you process it. Some data just sucks more to process but that's life.

[CNitsah]

The problem is that every criticism, even those that try to sound eloquent, sound incredibly disingenuous. People in this forum argue about "plotholes" made by their head cannons. They make mountains of what is a hill of each problem DT has. They disregard and trash-talk when someone speak of positive aspects of DT. They critique some aspects of DT while praising prior expansions same aspects, even the flaws. They make a scapegoat of an okay character to put all flaws onto it, when it's obvious not their fault of the problem that exist. They claim the story is simple and yet every argument the argue stuff as if they didn't even understood the story.

This one is rich, you disregard the complains by telling the problems are not so bad, and telling those opinions are disingenious, while complaining about people disregarding positive comment. The irony is not lost on me.

This is what the FFXIV community is. For years, the exact same thing happened to people that dared to criticise FFXIV. It took the bad decision of Endwalker patches for the community to be allowed to say something negative without being trashed by the fans. But now they're not the majority anymore and complain about how they are treated, when it's exactly how they treated other for years. This community is not better than others, it's the champion of passive aggressive behaviour, unsaid ressentment and shutting down discording voice. Both side are the same, and your post is the exact same thing you complain about, you try to sound eloquent to put you above the mass to give your opinion some weight. For you it's ok but when they don't agree with you they're disingenuous. It may not be what you wanted to convey, but that's sure how it looks like.

Now there are opinion that feel over the top and try to make problems bigger than they are, but you decided that every criticism is like this...

[OMGJesuis66]

This one is rich, you disregard the complains by telling the problems are not so bad, and telling those opinions are disingenious, while complaining about people disregarding positive comment. The irony is not lost on me.

This is what the FFXIV community is. For years, the exact same thing happened to people that dared to criticise FFXIV. It took the bad decision of Endwalker patches for the community to be allowed to say something negative without being trashed by the fans. But now they're not the majority anymore and complain about how they are treated, when it's exactly how they treated other for years. This community is not better than others, it's the champion of passive aggressive behaviour, unsaid ressentment and shutting down discording voice. Both side are the same, and your post is the exact same thing you complain about, you try to sound eloquent to put you above the mass to give your opinion some weight. For you it's ok but when they don't agree with you they're disingenuous. It may not be what you wanted to convey, but that's sure how it looks like.

Now there are opinion that feel over the top and try to make problems bigger than they are, but you decided that every criticism is like this...

I believed I made myself clear enough for people to notice that I am pointing out the hypocrisy in the community for the precise same arguments you made. People criticise Dawntrail, while Endwalker, Shadowbringers, etc, had huge problems too but up to this day, you still can't criticise those. In fact, problems presented in other expansions repeated themseoves in DT, but theres a double standard in criticism. I pointed that on the very paragraph you quoted me. Seems like I wasn't clear enough. But, thank you for actually agreeing with my point!

There's no moral high horse here, I simply pointed out that most criticism are undeserved of the expansion, while acknowledgeding that criticism is important and deserved. But the pile given is a mess. And I am not SE, it's not my job to filter for decent criticism. I just don't look at data anymore, because the odds of being a bad criticism is huge.

That's the grave all the bashing of the expansion dug up, people will disregard it. There are many valid points that were brought about issues of the expansion, feel free to dig it up through everything else first, because others will not, and in fact will roll their eyes when they see so many people embrace bad takes that will permeate for the years to come. Common thing in this community.

[Damnhedge]

To give a tiny bit of copium to a doomium thread. I do genuinely think we're not seeing Wuk Lamat past 7.3 if even that. Now this is purely speculation but, G'raha was re-introduced as basically a different character from his 2.X incarnation. I'd be lying if I said I even remembered G'raha past "Oh right that red cat boy with the Allagan eyes on the Crystal Tower stuff." As it has been like 7 years at that point since CT launched, and I'd never gone back to do the story on NG+ again when it was introduced. And I remember that being a common thing, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but the reception OF the Exarch and his role in Shadowbringers (Both as the Exarch and as G'raha) were pretty much well received by everybody. So much so that speculation about 5.3 and whether or not him being in the patch art would mean he'd die was a negative thing to most people. Again, pure speculation, but if you ask me G'raha in the original plot outline for 5.1 - 5.3 was meant to die after SoS, but his popularity made them reconsider adding CT to the MSQ as a requirement so G'raha could continue existing as we know him now on the Source. Whether you like G'raha since EW is up in the air but that's my theory why they specifically made dialogue incase you hadn't done CT when 5.0 launched, when they were just gonna make it mandatory a year later.

Wuk Lamat isn't as popular, infact I'd argue she's as far from the Exarch's popularity as you can be. But like the Exarch, Wuk absolutely has a baked in reason to continue being a main character post 7.3 when we start setting up for Meracydia, or Hingashi, or the Void or whatever we're doing in 8.0. They could very easily have her go "I'm gonna join the Scions and the Warrior of Light across the Salt to learn about more cultures to be a better head of resolve." (Which is completely ignoring her just adopting Gulool Ja but hey she's basically Goku anyway, except not as endearing, her abandoning her adoptive child is pretty much a thing she would do). I just don't think this'll happen. I know that the devs are aware of Wuk's mixed reviews and if they have any sort of balls they'll continue the story arc no matter how much it pisses people off that they have planned for 7.1 - 7.3's MSQ. But I wholly believe Wuk is being shelved to side content hell after 7.3, I don't think the devs will use the "Learning about Cultures" excuse to have her join us beyond 7.3. In the same vein that Lyse wasn't one of the Scions that got Isekai'd to the First after the distaste people had for Lyse, right down to 5.2's Bozja Instance having us "Remember our closest companions" and picking the entire ShB crew including Ryne to fight Memory Varis. Obviously we're still.....11? Months off of 7.3, and who knows maybe they'll double down and keep her around, with her mug being the first thing we see in the CGI trailer for 8.0. But I wanna give some credit to the devs, they're not THAT stupid......right?

[Turtledeluxe]

EW and SHB don't get the same criticism as DT because, as the critical reception shows, SHB and EW had a way higher ratio of highs to lows than DT. Yes they had slow moments, but then it would reward you with mind blowing, thematically relevant plot movement.

DT simply can't stick to a theme, being moreso composed of several unfocused and underdeveloped sub plots that get only lip service. SHB and EW don't have that problem. In those xpacs you were getting hours of cutscenes that were balancing character development and the themes virtually the whole entire 40 hours.

[Supersnow845]

EW and SHB don't get the same criticism as DT because, as the critical reception shows, SHB and EW had a way higher ratio of highs to lows than DT. Yes they had slow moments, but then it would reward you with mind blowing, thematically relevant plot movement.

DT simply can't stick to a theme, being moreso composed of several unfocused and underdeveloped sub plots that get only lip service. SHB and EW don't have that problem. In those xpacs you were getting hours of cutscenes that were balancing character development and the themes virtually the whole entire 40 hours.

DT has a very strong theme IMO (it’s probably the strongest representation of legacy in the game even more so than elpis and the ancients) it’s just it’s done in such a “make it understandable for 4 year olds” way that it brings it down

Seriously nobody could develop the theme in a more detailed and pronounced way than “remember on a rock good, remember as endless bad”

[hynaku]

I'm not surprised ether by the mix. To me DT is a trash expansion the worst of all the expansions.