True fault of current tank design: Lack of identity

[Vinter]

If I were to redesign Warrior I'd build it from the ground up around Inner Release. You're playing a berserker, the whole point is to go berserk. Also it looks cool having the red glowy eyes.

First off we get rid of all the mitigations, we won't need them. Instead of building up beast gauge to do Fell Cleave you build up beast gauge to proc Inner Release, at which point you go berserk and gain +20% damage mitigation and +20% damage output for 30 seconds. This changes your regular combos to new fancy moves that do basically the same thing but with a new coat of paint to really sell that you're giving in to your inner beast and attacking with reckless abandon. What Inner Release also does is that for every 5% of health you lose, you gain 2% increased damage and 2% increased mitigation, so the more damage you take the harder you fight, and the more difficult it gets to kill you. This is why we won't need any of the other mitigations, it's all baked into Inner Release.

For every combo you do you get a free Fell Cleave/Decimate, which still auto crit, and once you run out of Inner Release you smash that Equilibrium to bring your health back up, ready to repeat the process. It'll essentially be 30 seconds of unga bunga followed by 30 seconds of building up more gauge to do more unga bunga. This puts warrior in a space where they rely on vit, crit, and tenacity as their main stats and gives them a risk/reward dynamic where you are encouraged to take damage to increase damage while still keeping the burst damage nature of the class. I have no idea what to do with the oGCDs for this, but I think at least Shake It Off should be kept as the one mitigation skill warrior has.

No clue if this is even a good idea, just a thought I had.

[Supersnow845]

If I were to redesign Warrior I'd build it from the ground up around Inner Release. You're playing a berserker, the whole point is to go berserk. Also it looks cool having the red glowy eyes.

First off we get rid of all the mitigations, we won't need them. Instead of building up beast gauge to do Fell Cleave you build up beast gauge to proc Inner Release, at which point you go berserk and gain +20% damage mitigation and +20% damage output for 30 seconds. This changes your regular combos to new fancy moves that do basically the same thing but with a new coat of paint to really sell that you're giving in to your inner beast and attacking with reckless abandon. What Inner Release also does is that for every 5% of health you lose, you gain 2% increased damage and 2% increased mitigation, so the more damage you take the harder you fight, and the more difficult it gets to kill you. This is why we won't need any of the other mitigations, it's all baked into Inner Release.

For every combo you do you get a free Fell Cleave/Decimate, which still auto crit, and once you run out of Inner Release you smash that Equilibrium to bring your health back up, ready to repeat the process. It'll essentially be 30 seconds of unga bunga followed by 30 seconds of building up more gauge to do more unga bunga. This puts warrior in a space where they rely on vit, crit, and tenacity as their main stats and gives them a risk/reward dynamic where you are encouraged to take damage to increase damage while still keeping the burst damage nature of the class. I have no idea what to do with the oGCDs for this, but I think at least Shake It Off should be kept as the one mitigation skill warrior has.

No clue if this is even a good idea, just a thought I had.

And if a tankbuster fell during the 30 seconds of downtime?

[Vinter]

And if a tankbuster fell during the 30 seconds of downtime?

Shake It Off.

[Carighan]

And if a tankbuster fell during the 30 seconds of downtime?

I mean the current short-CDs are on a 25s CD except TBN. Naturally, no tankbuster chains faster than that. So it'd be 0 issue.

[Supersnow845]

I mean the current short-CDs are on a 25s CD except TBN. Naturally, no tankbuster chains faster than that. So it'd be 0 issue.

Did you read their post, they said delete all defensives and bake it into a forced up and downtime phasing system

[Carighan]

Did you read their post, they said delete all defensives and bake it into a forced up and downtime phasing system

Yeah but my point was that so long as the interval is 25-30 seconds, the "but what if in-between" is irrelevant, as nothing happens more frequently than that. It's the shortest interval the devs baked into tank-specific damage. I get the underlying problem as it restricts fight design, but the devs gave even TBN 15s CD, as if that has any use. They're obsessed with not challenging players too frequently.

...

Aaaand now I just realized the person you quotes said proc Inner Release, as in, automatically. Damn I look stupid now. >.> But yeah, that system would be workable if it's manually triggered tbh.

[Vinter]

Aaaand now I just realized the person you quotes said proc Inner Release, as in, automatically. Damn I look stupid now. >.> But yeah, that system would be workable if it's manually triggered tbh.

That's what I meant, I don't know why I wrote proc. Tired probably. Basically the reward for building up meter being sicko mode instead of just fell cleave.

[dspguy]

And if a tankbuster fell during the 30 seconds of downtime?

During late ARR, that's how WAR played. You'd use Inner Beast from the gauge, it did damage AND gave a 30% or 40% mitigation for 5-6 seconds or so. In other words, you had to actually plan out when to use abilities. And IB was on a GCD, not oGCD like every other mitigation WAR (and other tanks) have.

The lack of identity is only one thing that is an issue. But I think the bigger issue is the ease of playing a job like tank. Tank stance gives you so much hate that 2-2-3 Fell Cleaves at the beginning of a trial/raid/etc is enough to hold hate for the entire battle if you just turn it off. We have so many mitigation tools, it is easy to just use more than you really need. Healers used to have Cleric Stance. They had to actually think about when they could focus on damage and when they had to focus on heals, since it was a 10s cooldown to switch. DPS jobs had a button they had to hit occasionally to shed hate.

Many MMOs have tank mechanics that require a tank to think about how to use their abilities to keep hate and mitigate damage. Or communicate and collaborate with the party to do so. We are just 8 players playing 8 separate jobs at the same time in the same area when we do a raid/trial/etc.

[Supersnow845]

During late ARR, that's how WAR played. You'd use Inner Beast from the gauge, it did damage AND gave a 30% or 40% mitigation for 5-6 seconds or so. In other words, you had to actually plan out when to use abilities. And IB was on a GCD, not oGCD like every other mitigation WAR (and other tanks) have.

The lack of identity is only one thing that is an issue. But I think the bigger issue is the ease of playing a job like tank. Tank stance gives you so much hate that 2-2-3 Fell Cleaves at the beginning of a trial/raid/etc is enough to hold hate for the entire battle if you just turn it off. We have so many mitigation tools, it is easy to just use more than you really need. Healers used to have Cleric Stance. They had to actually think about when they could focus on damage and when they had to focus on heals, since it was a 10s cooldown to switch. DPS jobs had a button they had to hit occasionally to shed hate.

Many MMOs have tank mechanics that require a tank to think about how to use their abilities to keep hate and mitigate damage. Or communicate and collaborate with the party to do so. We are just 8 players playing 8 separate jobs at the same time in the same area when we do a raid/trial/etc.

Again like the other person can you please read what they suggested I know how ARR WAR worked

They suggested hard up and downtime phases you can’t move around where only the uptime phase has mitigation, that is nothing like what you are describing

[Vinter]

Again like the other person can you please read what they suggested I know how ARR WAR worked

They suggested hard up and downtime phases you can’t move around where only the uptime phase has mitigation, that is nothing like what you are describing

No that's not what I suggested.