MSQ Questing in response to Yoshida's interviews

[Rueby]

On alts, yes.
Maybe. I suppose I didn't notice it being clearer since I assumed I was lost in exploring the whole place the first time regardless.

And although it maybe feels slightly easier I think this is just because I know what to do and where everything is and how to navigate through it efficiently. A lot of things in this game feel easier when you repeat them because of knowing what to do after all.

From my personal observation, the fuel tank and also the injured imperial were pretty clearly shown which wasn't before. I'd have to actually run it again to confirm it but I don't think I have it in me to endure the emotional torture that is EW on another char.

I think that's really it right there. It's something they developed and it's only logical a developer doesn't want to waste their new feature.

But it could help if they come up with some similar ideas to mix in with it, even if they're from traditional single player games that MMORPGs don't normally copy, and bring those into the MMORPG genre in a similar way, to shake up the concept of killing enemies and picking up/handing over items that MMORPGs have done for decades.

Honestly I hope so

[Rekh]

Yes. WoW definitely just had its first good expansion. The people before the exodus stuck around for so long despite every expansion being low quality trash, and somehow all had enough specifically in Shadowlands as well as around the same time we all learned how terrible a place to work at was Blizzard. It was all a coincidence and there's nothing at all to learn from WoW and all of its low quality content that totally did not lead to it being the king of the MMO landscape for so long.

I also struggle to understand what you mean by fake content. FF14's overworld is as fake as it gets. Nothing actually exists here. Any and all content is tied to stuff magically spawning out of thin air to be cleared, be it quest objectives or FATEs. Are you actually defending for the overworld to remain ... empty?

Like, seriously? And maybe if they spent more times thinking about quality overworld content, the quest design wouldn't struggle as much to give the player anything at all to do other than click for the next dialogue box.

Yes, let's dismiss the exodus and call Wow's continual decline "not a problem." It flat out hasn't had quality open world + instanced content in 3+ expansions until the most recent ones; hence the exodus.

It's not even about having actual content, but just ambience.

That's fake content. Why would I want tural to be on fire if there's no interactive content to make that meaningful?

maybe if they spent more times thinking about quality overworld content

I don't know who you're addressing with that but the conversation's about launch msq and open world. What are you willing to sacrifice for what you're suggesting? Longer development cycles between expansions? Less instanced leveling dungeons?

[Reimmi]

You asked for a fake environment even if it doesn't have content in it.

Fake conflict without content.


Then you're asking for Gw2, it's the mmorpg that does open world the best; of the big 4. world of warcraft doesn't even come close.
https://mmorpg.gg/mmos-for-explorati...mber%202014%20
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comm...rld/?rdt=62199
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comm..._has_the_best/



WoW? The mmorpg that had the exodus and only recently released a good expansion? If that's the quality you want; quantity over quality, then by all means, let's lower xiv's quality so we can have both dungeons and open world during the msq's launch. If you actually had a clue how a company's ran you'd know you can't just walk tell your workers they now have to add an extra project to their deliverables without removing something from it or by extending the project deadline. Clearly you're clueless how businesses are ran, much less about project management.

Just saying, but, ARR was made by having the devs LITERALLY look at wow and copy them.
You are playing a game made on the basis of WoW right now.

[LisseyCrowe]

Yes, let's dismiss the exodus and call Wow's continual decline "not a problem." It flat out hasn't had quality open world + instanced content in 3+ expansions until the most recent ones; hence the exodus.

Where did I say it has no problems, exactly? You always strawman your way out of discussions? Btw feel free to explain why the exodus happened exactly when it did (Hint: It's because Shadowlands was really, really bad, not because everyone suddenly had enough at the same time).

Also curious how you plan to justify WoW's open world being worse than FF14's. With an actual argument, possibly, instead of just "It's bad lol". WoW's open world has more enemies, better enemy placement, unique enemies, unique loot, secrets, achievements, secret quests, pets, and that's just the stuff I remember. What exactly does 14 have? FATEs? Hunts are okay, have their pros and cons. Uhhhh ... Sight-seeing log? If you want though, we don't even have to bring WoW into it, since the person you originally responded to talked about how ARR zones had a story to tell just from area and zone placement alone. Or was that just bad fake content, whatever that means, and ARR was a very naughty boy for designing their areas as such.

As for the last statement, it was a hook to other issues the game has had. Putting work here can then be used to make other work easier, so it's not overwhelming and won't require talent to be "spread thin". Which is also something we're supposed to assume just is, because you said it, I guess? You don't know the development, same as us. And this is Square Enix, not some indie company.

[Rekh]

Just saying, but, ARR was made by having the devs LITERALLY look at wow and copy them.
You are playing a game made on the basis of WoW right now.

10+ years ago, when Wow was actually great. Did you even read the post? Haha

[LisseyCrowe]

10+ years ago, when Wow was actually great. Did you even read the post? Haha

Soooo you won't have anything against them learning from WoW Classic then? Which still did many of the things that were brought up and immediately classified as "fake content".

[Rekh]

Where did I say it has no problems, exactly? You always strawman your way out of discussions? Btw feel free to explain why the exodus happened exactly when it did (Hint: It's because Shadowlands was really, really bad, not because everyone suddenly had enough at the same time).

Also curious how you plan to justify WoW's open world being worse than FF14's. With an actual argument, possibly, instead of just "It's bad lol". WoW's open world has more enemies, better enemy placement, unique enemies, unique loot, secrets, achievements, secret quests, pets, and that's just the stuff I remember. What exactly does 14 have? FATEs? Hunts are okay, have their pros and cons. Uhhhh ... Sight-seeing log? If you want though, we don't even have to bring WoW into it, since the person you originally responded to talked about how ARR zones had a story to tell just from area and zone placement alone. Or was that just bad fake content, whatever that means, and ARR was a very naughty boy for designing their areas as such.

As for the last statement, it was a hook to other issues the game has had. Putting work here can then be used to make other work easier, so it's not overwhelming and won't require talent to be "spread thin". Which is also something we're supposed to assume just is, because you said it, I guess? You don't know the development, same as us. And this is Square Enix, not some indie company.

They won’t (or can’t, even) step up their game, and the game hasn’t been in competitive shape since Legion.

The fact that they’re already reusing systems from 8.2/8.3 in Benthic/Vision Tech Tree should tell you all you need to know about the state of WoW’s future development. They’re unable to compete in the space anymore, and are relying 100% on sunk cost keeping this playerbase going.

WoW was largely unliked in BFA, but Legion was good enough (and M+ fresh enough) to keep people playing in the hopes that they could recapture some form of lightning in a bottle. Shadowlands has all but guaranteed to people they cannot do that again.

Simple question, Id like to hear everyones different reasons as to when/why/how WoW (for them) started to decline/die out for them. And I dont mean actually dead and forgotten etc I meant… Not as enjoyable.

Ive played for a long time and with the same class ( I havent ever changed since 2006 ) and for me I’d say it was between WOTLK and Cata. Don’t get me wrong. I enjoyed WOTLK for what it was (I peaked as a raider/‘hardcoreness’ in TBC) but IIRC WOTLK was when I started to notice things that irked me… I think the first thing I kind of disliked was the ability for literally 20-40 people to form a huge pug and just go mongoloid on bosses on ‘normal’ raid difficulties without any real preparation and communication. It was wack to me because 10man Karazhan kicked peoples asses for months.

Cata and MoP.

MoP was the first time had a huge decline in subs. From 10 million to to 6 million.

MoP basically was a warning sign. When a company makes a whole expansion based around pandering to the Chinese market instead of it’s original core market you can tell it’s going for money instead of making a good game. MoP was the foreshadowing to Diablo Imortal.

MoP was the starting of pruning even if WoD pruned harder. Forcing specs instead of trees was the start of the quality of the game for me personally.

Cataclysm was when I felt like the game was losing its touch but It has some high points in mop and legion again so I think this game has trends of inconsistency in quality

Quotes from 2019; source blizzard forums

Cata and MoP as is often mentioned came out around the 2010-2012 time period.


Continual decline. I bring you proof you just bring words.

Soooo you won't have anything against them learning from WoW Classic then? Which still did many of the things that were brought up and immediately classified as "fake content".

Of course not, specially recent WoW is actually a good product. But you have to realize that ffxiv can't do it all at launc for and during msq-expansion launch. You will have to sacrifice something to get open world content during msq.

Unreasonable requests for a game that's had the same formula since 2015 don't really help the devs. I'd personally like open world stuff during msq and I'd sacrifice nomral raids roulete for it. But then people that do savage will do youtube videos about "square enix hates raiders."

[LisseyCrowe]

Of course not, specially recent WoW is actually a good product. But you have to realize that ffxiv can't do it all at launc for and during msq-expansion launch. You will have to sacrifice something to get open world content during msq.

Unreasonable requests for a game that's had the same formula since 2015 don't really help the devs. I'd personally like open world stuff during msq and I'd sacrifice nomral raids roulete for it. But then people that do savage will do youtube videos about "square enix hates raiders."

If anything all you've proven is they've stabilized spectacularly since WoD despite the controversies, exodus and so-called "bad expansions".

Anyway, moving on. I'm more interested in what you think is actually real open-world content from Classic WoW vs the "fake" open-world content from retail. That would be a lot more constructive. Let the devs decide if they can or can't do something, our job as fans/players/customers is to discuss what they could do.

[Rekh]

If anything all you've proven is they've stabilized spectacularly since WoD despite the controversies, exodus and so-called "bad expansions".

Anyway, moving on. I'm more interested in what you think is actually real open-world content from Classic WoW vs the "fake" open-world content from retail. That would be a lot more constructive. Let the devs decide if they can or can't do something, our job as fans/players/customers is to discuss what they could do.

Only in your head is going downhill = Stabilized. In numbers, from around 10 million for 8 or so years down to 5.5 then losing 1 million over the next 6 years.

Ask the OP; he's talking about msq content. xiv doesn't have the capacity for deep open world content with the amount of resources and time launch msq takes. The best they can settle for is heavensward/shadowbringers story telling.

For open world content in general they already created them with bozja, and eureka to a lesser extent. Unfortunately they're locked behind instances instead of being a part of the regular open world. And there's benefit for square enix to do this since they wouldn't have to create brand new locations.

[Bellybell]

i'm fine with anything as long as they're NOT making fight as Wuk Lamat again