Frontlines: Leechers and Feeders

[Enjuden]

I've never played SGE in FL, but based on those numbers, it looks like the biggest skill is positioning.

Positioning is the key skill, yes.

If you position badly, you simply die and do no damage, or worse, you do nothing. It is not an easy skill, but it is a skill you do have to learn one way or another. Unfortunately, there really is no way to teach that unless you want to learn it yourself, which filters out basically everyone who hasn't played PvP games a decent amount, MMO or otherwise. It is very easy to tunnel vision then you suddenly have 24 people deciding you're alone while your team has gone off somewhere else.

There is cheeky stuff people can do even if you do manage to position well, or see a good engage, like Warriors deciding to 'help' you by dragging you even further into their team than what you would want for instance.

[Cidel]

Oh yeah, you can do well on almost any job by knowing proper positioning.

Well actually, I'd argue that's only a third of the equation necessary to do well. The other two are job knowledge and target priority.

Job knowledge is everything from you knowing what your own buttons do to knowing what everything else is capable of. This one is slightly more crucial than the other two, because it dictates you knowing what your bursts are and when and how to do them and what behaviors and tricks to expect enemies to try when engaging them. Even if you're savvy on what your own job does, if you don't know what SAM's Chiten buff looks like, know what DRK and PLD's "unkillable" icon is on their status bar, or that you shouldn't allow yourself sit at under 50% HP because NINs exist, you're- well, to borrow someone else's terminology from around here, a "net negative."

Time and time again I have seen people still compelled hit lone, suicidal SAMs who popped their Chiten buff, when by now that should be identified as obvious LB bait. I have seen MCHs let off raw LBs on full-HP targets or worse, PLDs and DRKs in the middle of their LB or people floating in their bubble. Every day I see people attempt to simply run back out of a DRK draw-in instead of utilizing their Guard 1st. Just learning what these jobs do and what their buffs mean would help, but I guess it's easier to just jump on the Official Forums and complain about how broken SAM and NIN's LBs are instead of learning the criteria they have to meet.

Target priority is pretty self explanatory, but separates the 0/5/xs from the 5/0/xxs. Melee jobs (even tanks, especially tanks) have a defense bonus modifier. Technically everything does, but most ranged DPS and healers are the baseline, so everything else has "more." You should be looking for exposed and out-of-position ranged DPS and healers to attack, not slamming your face into a RPR or DRG that will take more GCDs and thus time and effort to kill because you're too lazy to switch targets. Whatever it takes you to kill a tank or melee DPS, a ranged DPS would have been dead long before. Unless your entire alliance is dogpiling a melee enemy, chances are it will survive upwards of half-a-dozen people hitting it (especially if Battle High isn't a factor) and use their movement skills to lose you and heal-up. Meanwhile, their own ranged DPS have free reign to whittle you down without repercussions.

Which is why effort expended on PLDs and DRKs sitting with their fingers over their LBs will always be wasted. Unless they are one of the last retreating targets, they will be fulfilling their job as a tanky distraction while easier-to-kill enemies will converge on you and your own teammates. Frontlines is a numbers game. The team that culls the others' numbers faster will almost always come out on top. Take out the targets that die faster.

And then there's Positioning. Most jobs within a role have an effective range, with a few deviations for things like DNC or NIN. Obviously ranged DPS want to be at a range, while melee DPS usually need to (and can easily) get up-close. With the last tidbit about target priority in mind, naturally an out-of-position ranged or healer is an easy and enticing target. Those SMNs, SGEs and WHMs mindlessly using their jump-ins? Easier kill than the DRK, WARs and RPRs you're playing footsies with. If your jobs has a jump-in or skill that requires you to be exposed, you better make sure you use it with the intention of ending your target or have an escape plan.

If you're playing a ranged job, obviously you want to surround yourself with as many other teammates as possible to A) prevent yourself from being easily targeted, and B) so you have the support of numbers to dissuade people from rushing in to get to you. If you are playing things like MCH and BRD, you shouldn't be at the front of your group in an engagement unless you're confident enough about your ability to disengage and survive a sudden focus on you. This is why teams that are overpopulated with healers and ranged DPS and only a handful of melee jobs tend to get stomped: you have no frontline to stand behind. One or two tanks and melee DPS jumping-in and leading a charge against you, and your team is instantly on the backfoot trying to create space (ie: retreating).

All 3 are important. If you neglect job knowledge, then target priority and positioning won't help you actually function decently in a fight, not when you're slapping DRKs and PLDs with their invincible LB up and getting floored by a low-skilled SAM. If you neglect target priority, then enjoy not killing anything until you're eventually outnumbered & overrun. If you neglect positioning, then good job knowledge and target priority might help you secure kills, until you are dogpiled on for the 5th time and you never stay above maybe Battle High 1.

Wow, okay, that turned into a impromptu guide. Only because I was bored and waiting for maintenance to finish. But knowing those 3 things usually is enough to at least not be dead weight in any FL match.

[Spiffer]

Target prio very importante indeed. Ranged typically have lower defense lower hp and less defensives easy targets. for me at least I know the game does not give you this info unless you play more then 1 job(which more ppl should in pvp everyone should practice multiple jobs) to get better. one of my more notable moves is dive with w/e group is in the mix and If i see a brd or a stray healer try to get close instantly hop on them put that pressure on it tends to work out more then not.

[Gaiinahat]

I played Sage maybe once when EW came out in PVP. I didn't use my LB very much in this match but didn't really know where to place it, so I left it alone outside of one use. This match is easily as bad as Frontline used to be when it was full premade or lose. The idea is to hit toxikon on your main target, then once that is down, hit as much of the group as you can. Sage is admittedly pretty hard to do without a second person, but it can be done so long as you don't recklessly use Icarus. What I mean by reckless uses is to always have two charges when you go in, so you can leave immediately after baiting damage onto you with guard. Still, even with the worst case scenario, you can still get over 500k if you play well.

Any other jobs? I do not play Sage at all in PvP, but it was pretty fun to figure it out during this match, and likely can be a bit more optimal with damage. Even in the worst case scenario, you still can contribute with the metric I had so long as you play smart.

My numbers came out to:

SGE: 1-7-7 264k
BLM: 7-1-14 381k
PLD: 0-2-15 256k
WAR: 1-2-23 221k

My biggest surprise was that on BLM I got more kills, less deaths, and a few less assists, yet only did a quarter of the damage you put out.
I noticed you were in Onsal while I did my numbers in Shatter. I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

Your numbers are impressive. I'd love to see you write some sort of guide. That's what us newbies need, more guidance on solo strategies that don't involve "join a premade."

[Enjuden]

My numbers came out to:

SGE: 1-7-7 264k
BLM: 7-1-14 381k
PLD: 0-2-15 256k
WAR: 1-2-23 221k

My biggest surprise was that on BLM I got more kills, less deaths, and a few less assists, yet only did a quarter of the damage you put out.
I noticed you were in Onsal while I did my numbers in Shatter. I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

Your numbers are impressive. I'd love to see you write some sort of guide. That's what us newbies need, more guidance on solo strategies that don't involve "join a premade."

I can try to, though I'm definitely not the best when it comes to these things. If you want me to take a guess as to why the numbers are like that on Black Mage, you are likely focusing too much on Ice spells rather than Fire. I focus on Damage over Time with Fire, as Ice stun/root is too predictable and generally not worth it. I will see if someone else wrote a guide first before doing so, as Frontline is rather old, and I'm sure someone had already.

For Shatter, I think the damage numbers can be lessened to a degree because you're mostly doing pve content anyway in that mode, and you're really only doing damage to other players accidentally for the most part. It is very rare for people to focus on PvP in that mode unless you're trying to deny small ice points, or simply have nothing better to do and your team just wants to go after a particular team on big for whatever reason.

[Archeron]

This is one of my Black mage runs

I don't have any currently saved of warrior but I'll throw a match up when I have time to do one.

Black mage is all about smashing people with fire and putting dots on them. The electrical burst doesn't hurt and it puts a shield on you but I wouldn't be breaking formation to do it cause BLM is a massive prio target.
The BLM Ice I use on enemies that are running away, or in a choke point. If we're outnumbered, setting an AoE Bind/Stun on a lot of people will force their natural reaction to back up or disengage. BLM does best when the melee and Tanks are playing aggressive and not cowering behind the ranged.

There is really no point in doing guides since all the jobs are going to change in 7.1

[Mawlzy]

This is one of my Black mage runs

I don't have any currently saved of warrior but I'll throw a match up when I have time to do one.

Black mage is all about smashing people with fire and putting dots on them. The electrical burst doesn't hurt and it puts a shield on you but I wouldn't be breaking formation to do it cause BLM is a massive prio target.
The BLM Ice I use on enemies that are running away, or in a choke point. If we're outnumbered, setting an AoE Bind/Stun on a lot of people will force their natural reaction to back up or disengage. BLM does best when the melee and Tanks are playing aggressive and not cowering behind the ranged.

There is really no point in doing guides since all the jobs are going to change in 7.1

Let's hope. Plus Icy Veins gives a pretty good baseline.

[george357]

this part of the game has always been a dumpster fire and will always be that way i stay away from this mess.

[Aravell]

There is really no point in doing guides since all the jobs are going to change in 7.1

Are we certain that everything's changing? I'd assume that it's a safe bet that PCT and VPR will completely change since they only have a placeholder kit right now with some glaring flaws, but there's no guarantee that they won't just slap the new buttons onto the current kit of the other jobs and do nothing much else.

[JuicyHeals]

Are we certain that everything's changing? I'd assume that it's a safe bet that PCT and VPR will completely change since they only have a placeholder kit right now with some glaring flaws, but there's no guarantee that they won't just slap the new buttons onto the current kit of the other jobs and do nothing much else.

If that happens I may be done with PvP.