Dark Knight TBN

[Shurrikhan]

That's fine. 15% shield from 0-3 seconds, 25% shield from 3-7 seconds. This is not a fast game. If you still think that's too tough, then it's a you issue.

In Your Darkest Hour Effect: After 6s have elapsed, grants a barrier around target that absorbs damage totaling 10% of target's maximum HP.

So, which is it then? 6 seconds in order to get our original strength as originally stated? Or 3, per this random correction?

And more importantly, you're asking to drop unique flavor from the skill, both in terms of benefit (that it can uniquely be used for an immediately reactive emergency save of meaningful impact) and risk (needing to actually make it pop). Why?

[Terhix]

That's fine. 15% shield from 0-3 seconds, 25% shield from 3-7 seconds. This is not a fast game. If you still think that's too tough, then it's a you issue.

During prog I do not have 7 seconds of clairvoyance nor am I in hivemind with the healers to know who is going to be low HP just before a hard-hitting mechanic goes off, I look at the party frames when it's about to go off to see if someone is dangerously low on HP only then do I TBN them and hopefully save their life.

[Lyth]

??

You complained that it was too difficult to anticipate what was going to happen 6 seconds in the future for a fully scripted fight. I conceded and offered up a 3 second delay instead. If that's still an issue, tanking might not be the best choice.

I'm starting to see why tanking has progressively become simplified over time.

[Shurrikhan]

You complained that it was too difficult to anticipate what was going to happen 6 seconds in the future for a fully scripted fight. I conceded and offered up a 3 second delay instead. If that's still an issue, tanking might not be the best choice.

I'm starting to see why tanking has progressively become simplified over time.

???

You're asking to remove key flavor from the ability and muddy it awkwardly in order to remove its unique risk mechanic / constraint (must be popped into order to, in effect, refund its MP cost via an then-"free" Edge) and we're the ones who need to be "condescended to"?

I'm not surprised that anyone who dares critique your spitball of an idea must be the boogieman lowest common denominator, but no, degrading the unique use cases and removing the unique constraints that a skill has had since its introduction with wonky "get the other half of your value some time later"... is not an improvement.

What is even the intended appeal of delaying 40% of the barrier, especially since you removed any need to pop the bubble anyways?

[Lyth]

Don't worry, it's still darkness-flavored. By the way, the most popular suggestion in this thread was to increase the duration to 10 seconds, which would make said risk pretty much non-existent. Even your earlier suggestion was ultimately about making the shield easier to break. Not that I ever expected any sort of consistency in that response.

[Shurrikhan]

Even your earlier suggestion was ultimately about making the shield easier to break.

No, it was about making MP more than a mere charge counter. At present, that's all it is, after all, whereby our each 200 MP generated is basically just a 3s cooldown-reduction to a 3.33-charge 45s-recharge (reduced 3s at a time) Edge/Flood/TBN CD.

Its suggested max at 33.3% target eHP is not "easier to break" than 25% target eHP.

It also pushes conflict priorities between maximizing sustain and maximizing damage, something tanks used to have, even if in far from a balanced manner, before we replaced all such considerations with "Tank Mastery".

By the way, the most popular suggestion in this thread was to increase the duration to 10 seconds, which would make said risk pretty much non-existent.

It's a first-page post that references PvP. Most viewers are not going to look beyond the first page. That's hardly an indicator that most DRKs want to remove any and all unique constraints from TBN.

[Alice_Rivers]

An idea I had last night, with all the complaints I've seen of TBN not popping, is to make it so that it explodes if it times out. Said explosion would do damage both to the DRK and to any enemies within say 8y for an amount of damage that scales with the amount of shield remaining, thereby making it always good to use but also giving elements of risk/reward and unique flavour.

[Shurrikhan]

An idea I had last night, with all the complaints I've seen of TBN not popping, is to make it so that it explodes if it times out. Said explosion would do damage both to the DRK and to any enemies within say 8y for an amount of damage that scales with the amount of shield remaining, thereby making it always good to use but also giving elements of risk/reward and unique flavour.

The problem likely there is the same as for so much else with sustain vs. damage -- for the damage to the DRK to be of any "risk", you'd have to have an rDPS cost via sustain required (through healer offensive GCDs lost), which in turn means that sustain requirements would need to always exceed "free" sustain available. Yet, the developers seem absolutely insistent on ensuring that never happens.

Otherwise, you end up with TBN just hit on CD on or from the OT position whenever 25% the target's max HP exceeds 460 potency's damage... or nothing having changed.

[Alice_Rivers]

For DRK though that risk already exists, looking at numbers for dungeons, DRK HPS is about half of damage received, DRK's self sufficiency is already the lowest of the tanks and as a healer I think that's a good thing but it's also beside the point. Unlike WAR, DRK has to be concerned about all damage received, if TBN did damage for lets say whatever the value of the shield is when it expires, that's up to 25% of it's maximum HP as a worst case scenario, if it did the same damage to everything in range then there's ironically a reward for managing your HP and mits to keep that TBN up for the full seven seconds. Obviously that would be hilariously OP, I'd probably go for about 30% and buff the MP attacks TBN gives free when it pops to do a bit more so you still get rewarded better for having TBN pop but there's also a solid reward if you're skilled enough t use TBN itself as a weapon and you have to consider the damage you take if you use it badly. It's also then something the healer has to consider and a good DRK/Healer combo can really make the best of it either way.

[Carighan]

An idea I had last night, with all the complaints I've seen of TBN not popping, is to make it so that it explodes if it times out. Said explosion would do damage both to the DRK and to any enemies within say 8y for an amount of damage that scales with the amount of shield remaining, thereby making it always good to use but also giving elements of risk/reward and unique flavour.

Oh that'd be interesting. Hrm. Especially scaled off the remaining shield value.