Dawntrail's MSQ story is a disaster and waste of potential. [full spoilers]

[DonutSteel]

That whole deal with Erenville's mom never sat right with me from the beginning. Viera are supposed to be able to live for like centuries, but Erenville's mom just dies in the 30 year porp orb with no explanation or anything.

It's just "Oh yeah, she was dead this whole time. Too bad. Be happy you're even able to talk to her memory at all, Eren."

It's like they just wanted to make Erenville sad for its own sake.

[Themarvin]

I quite like DT, some very few parts that could had been done better, eg. maybe finding another Name for Sphene in English version is horrible to say and pronounce and to yell no matter dialect, origin of english language and more...

It is mostly just the Op that post in this thread anyway to be able to give it any credits, spending too much free time on something that is totally irrelevant and a very little part of the actual game as it is.

MSQ you do once... then there is the rest of the game = no point.

[lolnotacat]

I quite like DT, some very few parts that could had been done better, eg. maybe finding another Name for Sphene in English version is horrible to say and pronounce and to yell no matter dialect, origin of english language and more...

It is mostly just the Op that post in this thread anyway to be able to give it any credits, spending too much free time on something that is totally irrelevant and a very little part of the actual game as it is.

MSQ you do once... then there is the rest of the game = no point.

Hard disagree that the MSQ is pointless. It sets the tone for the entire expansion, especially because this game hung its hat on its story, particularly after ShB dropped. I can say anecdotally, a bunch of my friends and myself feel drained after the MSQ and are finding it difficult to stay motivated. I started playing in 2.5 and never had this issue before.

Granted, I don't think it's just the MSQ that's causing the overall bad vibes, but it was probably the last straw for a lot of people, which is leading to a lot of the overall negativity seen towards the game. People tolerated their concerns about healers, encounter design, job homogeneity, poor QoL because of spaghetti code, glamour issues, etc... because the story was good enough to keep them entertained and feeling positive. That's really not there anymore so now they're latching onto the few good things that do exist (Arcadion) and are huffing copium that 7.1 content will be good and the story won't be too shitty.

[CuteBucket]

For me outside op points and they not wrong. I was more disturb with the erenville and mother thing. I didnt like how its played off about his brooding. I didnt like how close the mother was with wuk lamat and co. It bothers me even more about how ppl go yeah we knew your mom was dead. As someone who grew up with just a mother no father figure. This just really made me fustrated to no end. Yeah I was not.a fan of how they treated erenville at all.

This also really rubbed me the wrong way. Erenville is going through HELL in Living Memory and it's like no one cares. The most you get is talking to one of the npcs on the side between cutscenes and them saying "poor Erenville," but never actually saying or doing anything in any of the actual scenes to acknowledge his sadness and anger at everything happening and try to offer him any comfort or empathy.

The Capybara ride made me have to get up and take a break from the story, it was so hard to sit through. "C'mon Erenville! Get on the capybara ride with your dead mom! Because it's all about her AI memories and what they want more than you!" If I was supposed to like his mom, it didn't work. All I felt was that Caciua was a selfish, absent mother who ran off on adventures and made other people raise her own son, and even after she's dead, her memories are trying to drag Erenville around and do what she wants to do with him with no regards to his wants and steps all over his boundaries, and all the characters just go along with and force WoL onto the stupid ride too. UGH.

[caffe_macchiato]

People said it would get better after the first month, but instead it's only getting worse. What's the latest cope?

[Striker44]

I don't recall people saying anything about a month, just watching in the long run what happens. Personally, I don't expect much from Steam reviews. The type of people most likely to give them aren't the intended audience, so as long as the game itself is still extremely healthy, I wouldn't put much stock in them. What I'm seeing in-game are tons of people online having fun, hunt trains still so large they're lagging the servers, FATE groups running constantly, and just a lot of folks upbeat and enjoying themselves.

Heck, if you want to look at Steam, why not look at the infamous Steam data and compare it to EW and ShB?

EW had 53k average players the month of release and 36k a month later (retaining 68%). That avg is inflated and the subsequent fall-off exaggerated a bit due to the "WoW exodus", though, so take with a large grain of salt.

ShB had 23k average players the month of release and 16k a month later (retaining 72%). Remember, this forum nowadays love to praise ShB as the best expansion ever for the game.

DT had 42k average players the month of release and 33k a month later (retaining 78%). So far, it has both a significantly higher average playerbase and better player retention than ShB.

The reality? Yeah, people overall are actually really enjoying DT. They're just not the kind of people that love to review bomb. What's your next cope for the game's continued health and success?

[Mortex]

I started an alt to play BLM so I'm redoing the story and I have to say Heavensward has a more interesting premise and stronger set up and it takes far less time than Dawntrail does. You meander around for so long in DT with Wuk telling you stuff constantly but in HW you experience stuff then talk about it which is far more engaging.

That pillar stuff at the start of Dawntrail is such a good example, it goes through the history of Tulioyal with Wuk explaining it but in HW you get told three things about Ishgard; They're at war with Dragons, they don't like outsiders and their leader is Bishop Thordan VII.
Then you go around the city and piece together other details yourself, you see there's crumbling infrastructure so you know they aren't winning against the dragons, you can tell by the names of the guards and the fact the bishop is the leader that this is a religious state and you see people hoddled around fires freezing on the lower section and people relaxing in fine clothing on the higher section so you know there's class disparity.
If this was Dawntrail Wuk would explain all this to you before you see it.

Also don’t forget there is a lot of “horrific” stuff happening in the story in comparison to friendship expansion Dawntrail( the character deaths are insane). Or actually good story twist when you get the info the ishgard people started the war and that nidhogg has the death of his mate fresh in his mind like it’s yesterday or that all of ishgards people could turn into dragon like monster with just a drop of dragons blood.

God now I have to replay HW because I miss good story telling man.

[chizLemons]

I don't recall people saying anything about a month, just watching in the long run what happens. Personally, I don't expect much from Steam reviews. The type of people most likely to give them aren't the intended audience, so as long as the game itself is still extremely healthy, I wouldn't put much stock in them. What I'm seeing in-game are tons of people online having fun, hunt trains still so large they're lagging the servers, FATE groups running constantly, and just a lot of folks upbeat and enjoying themselves.

Heck, if you want to look at Steam, why not look at the infamous Steam data and compare it to EW and ShB?

EW had 53k average players the month of release and 36k a month later (retaining 68%). That avg is inflated and the subsequent fall-off exaggerated a bit due to the "WoW exodus", though, so take with a large grain of salt.

ShB had 23k average players the month of release and 16k a month later (retaining 72%). Remember, this forum nowadays love to praise ShB as the best expansion ever for the game.

DT had 42k average players the month of release and 33k a month later (retaining 78%). So far, it has both a significantly higher average playerbase and better player retention than ShB.

The reality? Yeah, people overall are actually really enjoying DT. They're just not the kind of people that love to review bomb. What's your next cope for the game's continued health and success?

One thing to consider with MMOs though, is that there's a lot of people that, even when they're upset with the current state of the game, or a part of it, they will keep playing it. They have statics they're commited to, so they go to hunt trains and do roulettess to grab tomes and gear up. They feel a sense of obligation/routine to do their weeklies or dailies. They have friends in game or community events they want to meet and attend. They have goals they're still attached to and will pursue them, even if they might not be as motivated because of other reasons. There's a lot of time, money and emotional investment in their character to suddenly stop playing because the MSQ was bad.

That doesn't mean they're all happy with everything, and a big mistake of a lot of developers is simply looking at player data and going "oh okay people are playing and logging in, that means it's a success"
It's about how long people will KEEP playing if their feedbacks aren't addressed in the long run. It's about player sentiment despite activity data. It's about not losing the player's trust.

And also, just because game is getting negative reviews, that doesn't mean it's getting "review bombed".

[Cenobia]

I didn't think I'd make a second post here, but I'm trying to get through Living Memory and I'm just... speechless. Did a human being write this? An actual human being who has experienced emotions? Because that's incredibly hard to believe. I'm not going to repeat what everyone else here already said, just that I am literally unable to comprehend that someone wrote this story and expected people to agree with it in any way, shape or form. Erenville being in shock the entire time seems the only actual relatable response.

I have been playing this game since 2.0. Never unsubbed, not a single month. I'm heavily considering it if this absurdity is what we have to look forward to in the future. Your decisions made me a customer, Yoshi P.

And your decisions are on the brink of losing you one.

[lolnotacat]

I didn't think I'd make a second post here, but I'm trying to get through Living Memory and I'm just... speechless. Did a human being write this? An actual human being who has experienced emotions? Because that's incredibly hard to believe. I'm not going to repeat what everyone else here already said, just that I am literally unable to comprehend that someone wrote this story and expected people to agree with it in any way, shape or form. Erenville being in shock the entire time seems the only actual relatable response.

I have been playing this game since 2.0. Never unsubbed, not a single month. I'm heavily considering it if this absurdity is what we have to look forward to in the future. Your decisions made me a customer, Yoshi P.

And your decisions are on the brink of losing you one.

I tortured myself with the story up to Living Memory. It was painful. I had to take a ton of breaks and probably downed a half bottle of ibuprofen over the period of a week. Then I got to the point in Living Memory where bun mom went full Emet-Selch told us it was fine to kill the endless because they're not real. When our reaction was to essentially shrug our shoulders and go along with it, I completely checked out. I skipped the rest of the MSQ -- the first time I've done so since I started playing in 2.5.