Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Striker44]

Especially jarring when you consider the fact that at the end of 6.0, the Scion is so self-aware of their influence that they impose a self-banned so that they don't inadvertently effect nation's politic.

Yet ironically, and idiotically in DT I think we have the most direct involvement in playing kingmaker then we ever did comparing to all other expansion.

Just another point to show that the new writing team did a horrible job in maintaining consistency in the story, like it's almost they don't care.

The "disbanding" was primarily so the different nations within Eorzea would stop relying so heavily on the Scions to do all the heavy lifting and start taking the lead in solving their own problems, while the Scions went back to doing what the Scions did before they got so heavily involved in the "Eorzean Grand Company" or whatever it was called. I just looked up the cutscene again and Y'shtola straight up says:

"From now on, it falls to the Grand Companies of Eorzea and its allies to deal with the realm's crises."

With Urianger then adding:

"Meanwhile, we shall return to our erstwhile ways."

There's no consistency issue there. The Scions just wanted Eorzea to stop relying on them to do everything so they (the Scions) could get back to doing their own thing and making their own decisions rather than being ordered about by the Grand Companies. It wasn't about "affecting politics" that persuaded them to "disband." I swear, we've now reached the point of literally making things up just to find excuses to trash the dev team. Seriously...

[KageTokage]

It nonetheless feels kind of silly if people are still routinely turning to them to solve their problems by virtue of them being Archons.

[ArcturusWhisper]

I just have to step in on this one. For all of the many many reasons I have issue with the DT story, and this scene in particular this one is just not a problem. Wuk Lamat is the leader of Tural, and she spearheaded the expedition into Alexandria, and helped liberate the kingdom from Zoraal Ja's Tyranny, and killed Sphene. The Scions on the other hand have immense political clout back in the old world, but in the world world especially Alexandria which is from another shard, our words don't hold much weight. As leader of a neighboring nation she's really the only one with the authority. It isn't even that crazy of an idea. Stuff like this did happen in real life.

I will concede that it could make sense, realistically. But I think it all comes down to that everything just lacks weight the way it's gone about, and that makes me feel irritated.

[Raven2014]

There's no consistency issue there. The Scions just wanted Eorzea to stop relying on them to do everything so they (the Scions) could get back to doing their own thing and making their own decisions rather than being ordered about by the Grand Companies. It wasn't about "affecting politics" that persuaded them to "disband."

Then you need to take your own advise and look at what the "Scion used to do". Blatantly playing kingmaker sure as hell wasn't one of them.

- In 2.0, most of them were simply advisors. Especially Y'stola who had a very strong opinion against how Maelstrom treat the Sahargarin, but she never stepped out out bound.

- The whole reason why the original base of the Scion was located at the waking sand was to avoid the political influence of the syndicate.

- Afterward they relocated to Mor Dorha for the exact same reason.

- Alphinaugh's fail attempt to create the Scion's own GC was out of the desire of being operational independence.

- Throughout 3.0 - 6.0, the Scion helped solving problem never once we involved in the formation government. Isghard came up with their own, Ala Migho came up with thier own, Hien was already the king, Eulmore chose their own, even Garlemald is allowed to have their own internal debate.

- Never once the Scion stepped over the line and allowed themselves to make the judgement call.


But in DT, we do a double dipper and decide who deserved to rule and who doesn't, then execute it. I'm pretty sure it's that very same scene that you're citing in your argument, Thranced said the Scion will go back and against observe silently from the shadow. Excuse my French but "from the shadow" my arse, our foray in DT is anything but that. Not only we were straight up playing king maker, we did it from pretty much front and center. Remember that even before DT was released, the story premise already rub people the wrong way. Some already asked the question "why do we agree in participating in a rite of successor?" because that just how much out of character for the Scion was. And believe it or not, I actually defended the story back then. I told people that the invitation is probably just an excuse to start the story, there would probably some twist and turn that'll take the story in a different direction. And obviously I was wrong, not only they didn't change the direction, they're double down on it and the Scion basically became a paradogy of the CIA.


Is THAT consistency for you? 'Cause it's sure as heck doesn't look that way to me.

I swear, we've now reached the point of literally making things up just to find excuses to trash the dev team. Seriously...

I swear I didn't have to do it because they already give me more reason that I ever need to believe they're bad writers. This is just one of the MANY instance where this writing team demonstrate they either have a very bad attention to detail or simply writing in the wrong medium. To me it's very obvious whoever wrote this are more used to screenplay where each scenes tend to be more compartmentalized and the focus is on the drama and emotional impact rather than the end to end congruence. That doesn't tend to work in a contemporary story because unlike playwright, this medium actually needs consistency.

[gumas]

The dev really need to let go the scion for real, maybe we still have their companion once in a while but not the whole scion, urianger and thancred is basically free people, just let them go yoshi, the twin should be busy again with garlean so again let them go too

Yshtola probably busy in library, krile and graha also the same, the only person that make sense to join our adventure is estinien tbh

[ArcturusWhisper]

The dev really need to let go the scion for real, maybe we still have their companion once in a while but not the whole scion, urianger and thancred is basically free people, just let them go yoshi, the twin should be busy again with garlean so again let them go too

Yshtola probably busy in library, krile and graha also the same, the only person that make sense to join our adventure is estinien tbh

I think people should stop fixating on "they should let the scions go", which is a superficial issue. It's not the core problem. They are all our friends, if the devs have brains that allow them to write well, they can legitimately come adventuring with us if they like, since as you said they are "free people", why can't free people join us? And why can't they have new stories too? I mean the devs can choose not to, but that's not inevitable no matter what people claim. People who dislike these characters will like to not see them, that's totally understandable, but that's a separate issue. There are tons of characters I don't like seeing again, doesn't mean if the devs have chosen to they can't make more new stories for them, my taste notwithstanding.

The fundamental problem is that the devs no longer know how to write ANY characters and stories in a not "in-your-face" and superficial way. There are tons of new characters this expansion, I don't see this new cast of characters being written any better. No matter whether they write the scions or not, if they don't wrestle back the ability to actually WRITE, nothing will work.

[Voidmage]

Especially jarring when you consider the fact that at the end of 6.0, the Scion is so self-aware of their influence that they impose a self-banned so that they don't inadvertently effect nation's politic.

Yet ironically, and idiotically in DT I think we have the most direct involvement in playing kingmaker then we ever did comparing to all other expansion.

Just another point to show that the new writing team did a horrible job in maintaining consistency in the story, like it's almost they don't care.

I’ll be ok with it if they use that as a plot point in the future (like with the good old ARR politics).
Make it so our meddling in politics has consequences in some way.
Maybe growing tensions between two states and both come to us for help.

If not then yeah… we have almost all the leaders in the world on speed dial.

The most annoying thing is that the game repeatedly reminds us that the WoL does not really want to meddle in politics but it forces us anyway.
It doesn’t make any sense.

[BakoolJaJa]

I think people should stop fixating on "they should let the scions go", which is a superficial issue. It's not the core problem. They are all our friends, if the devs have brains that allow them to write well, they can legitimately come adventuring with us if they like, since as you said they are "free people", why can't free people join us? And why can't they have new stories too? I mean the devs can choose not to, but that's not inevitable no matter what people claim. People who dislike these characters will like to not see them, that's totally understandable, but that's a separate issue. There are tons of characters I don't like seeing again, doesn't mean if the devs have chosen to they can't make more new stories for them, my taste notwithstanding.

The fundamental problem is that the devs no longer know how to write ANY characters and stories in a not "in-your-face" and superficial way. There are tons of new characters this expansion, I don't see this new cast of characters being written any better. No matter whether they write the scions or not, if they don't wrestle back the ability to actually WRITE, nothing will work.

Exactly this. Without what little presence of good written scions (Estinien) there is in this expansion, it frankly falls completely apart. The scions are already barely there, but the new characters fail at being compelling. People need to stop calling for removal of scions when all we'll be left with is Wuk Lamat. Start calling for good writing instead. This goes for new and OLD characters, scions being poorly written is merely a symptom of a much bigger issue. And frankly this became crystal clear already during the Zero patches. Some scions were not there at all, some barely there, and only a few actually had a central role (which is perfectly fine on its own). But once again the newly introduced character simply didn't deliver.

[CamuiKushi]

Still though, I found the scene just as cheap and contrived as when the Domans showed up at exactly the right time to help the Ala Mhigans at the end of SB. It would would have worked better if there was some leadup to it. Perhaps we should have seen Koana sending representatives to all the major nations to petition them for help; watched him anxiously waiting for news, and when when all hope seemed lost, Vrtra arrives. It's an old story, but it works.

Reading your comment made me realise Alphinaud could still work. But it shouldn't have been to Radz-at-Han. It should have been Garlemald. Throughout the whole game we've had people coming to our rescue against Garlemald. It'd flip the script!
Alphi was there helping them rebuild during the patches. He was trying to get them to make trade agreements with other nations to rebuild.

Imagine how powerful it would have been for the remnants of the Garlean Empire to come save Tural during its darkest hour. It would have actually made Alphi and Ali's time there during the patches well spent.

Exactly this. Without what little presence of good written scions (Estinien) there is in this expansion, it frankly falls completely apart. The scions are already barely there, but the new characters fail at being compelling. People need to stop calling for removal of scions when all we'll be left with is Wuk Lamat. Start calling for good writing instead. This goes for new and OLD characters, scions being poorly written is merely a symptom of a much bigger issue. And frankly this became crystal clear already during the Zero patches. Some scions were not there at all, some barely there, and only a few actually had a central role (which is perfectly fine on its own). But once again the newly introduced character simply didn't deliver.

For me it's a matter of "If this is what they're going to do to the scions, I would rather they left them alone."

[Kennar]

But in DT, we do a double dipper and decide who deserved to rule and who doesn't, then execute it. I'm pretty sure it's that very same scene that you're citing in your argument, Thranced said the Scion will go back and against observe silently from the shadow. Excuse my French but "from the shadow" my arse, our foray in DT is anything but that. Not only we were straight up playing king maker, we did it from pretty much front and center. Remember that even before DT was released, the story premise already rub people the wrong way. Some already asked the question "why do we agree in participating in a rite of successor?" because that just how much out of character for the Scion was. And believe it or not, I actually defended the story back then. I told people that the invitation is probably just an excuse to start the story, there would probably some twist and turn that'll take the story in a different direction. And obviously I was wrong, not only they didn't change the direction, they're double down on it and the Scion basically became a paradogy of the CIA.

I agree with a lot of your points, but I must be contrarian about this.

I never felt like our characters did anything to put Lamat on the throne. We cheered her on, talked to the locals on her behalf (and then she took credit for our observations), and stayed out of the way of the other claimants. Gulool Ja Ja even said that this rite of succession was really more of a test to see who was fit to lead, and that he would not step down if he felt no one was ready. Ultimately, it was Gulool Ja Ja who made the decision. We were also invited to participate, everyone was fine with it, and there were no clandestine meetings or plans to install a puppet ruler. She was going to be Dawnservant with or without our help. That whole succession arc could have happened in a vacuum without our involvement, and nothing would have changed.

I still don't like this being our reason for going to the New World, though. I said in an older post that I was mad at the 6.5 story, and that still holds true. I didn't want my character to willingly get involved in a strange nation's politics, but there are interesting and dramatic ways to make that happen if it fits the larger story. That story has to be written for adults, though; it needs to be more complex, more fleshed out, and the characters need more depth and personality.

Reading your comment made me realise Alphinaud could still work. But it shouldn't have been to Radz-at-Han. It should have been Garlemald. Throughout the whole game we've had people coming to our rescue against Garlemald. It'd flip the script!
Alphi was there helping them rebuild during the patches. He was trying to get them to make trade agreements with other nations to rebuild.

Imagine how powerful it would have been for the remnants of the Garlean Empire to come save Tural during its darkest hour. It would have actually made Alphi and Ali's time there during the patches well spent.

I actually had a similar thought, but sadly, Garlemald will never be more than a smoldering pile of rubble.