Warrior Rework to Balance the job

[whiskeybravo]

Dungeons can stay casual. Encounter design is a separate issue and WAR is getting singled out because when you're healing one it's far less engaging than healing other tanks. At least most tanks require some healing. WAR unfortunately reduces healer to a one attack button and a DoT. Casual doesn't equate to being able to tab out mid content.

That's fine except there are all different levels of healers. If you're a savage or ultimate main healer then the "challenge" of a daily dungeon or leveling session is completely different than someone who only goes healer to fill a role with friends, for example, or otherwise casual types of players. Like I mentioned previously, from my brief experience pretty much every tank except WAR is guaranteed to die at least once when I'm on healer lol

The dungeon formula isn't fundamentally broken. If damage is too low that's easy to fix. If there is going to be a healer in the party though, the other party members can't be self sufficient. Some in this thread have claimed that healer complaints are misplaced, and dissatisfaction directed at WAR should be focused elsewhere, but that's totally wrong. If WAR wasn't problematic, it wouldn't have been given any special attention.

I still don't really get this perspective. I mean, healers contributing damage to clear stuff faster is far more meaningful in most cases. I'd be willing to bet if healers had a more interesting damage kit there'd be a lot more appreciation for a tank being able to sustain itself for longer periods of time. So I guess I'd be in the camp that claims your complaints are misplaced. Not invalid, given the current circumstances, just a sort of can't see the forest for the trees feel. And you even sort of alluded to it yourself with "reducing healers to one attack button and a DoT"

Hence the complaints. WAR prevents healer enjoyment. Is the fun of WAR really from constant full self heals? BW could remain if the healing was reduced. That wouldn't break dungeons and would still give WAR some control over healing.

"Constant full self heals" WAR has always had some aspect of self healing, as Launched mentioned dating back to Bloodbath and OG IB. There have been many different iterations on it throughout the years, and I can't think of any time it's self-healing has been in a trivial or insignificant state. I haven't denied accepting a nerf to BW, I know first hand it ends up being overheal quite often anyways. But nothing about nerfing BW makes the other tanks feel more enjoyable to play IMO. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's not as bad as the [DRK Complaint Section] has suggested for the last 5-6 years. But I literally just feel like telling the healer "sorry bro nothing else I can do" when I play another tank.

If equally viable means all tanks get BW, dungeon healing would have no value. Absolutely zero. Ahead of any responsibility to alleviate healer burden is the need to make the game worth playing.

This is taking the argument to an unnecessary extreme. See above comments.

[Supersnow845]

That's fine except there are all different levels of healers. If you're a savage or ultimate main healer then the "challenge" of a daily dungeon or leveling session is completely different than a someone who only goes healer to fill a role with friends, for example, or otherwise casual types of players. Like I mentioned previously, from my brief experience pretty much every tank except WAR is guaranteed to die at least once when I'm on healer lol



I still don't really get this perspective. I mean, healers contributing damage to clear stuff faster is far more meaningful in most cases. I'd be willing to bet if healers had a more interesting damage kit there'd be a lot more appreciation for a tank being able to sustain itself for longer periods of time. So I guess I'd be in the camp that claims your complaints are misplaced.



"Constant full self heals" WAR has always had some aspect of self healing, as Launched mentioned dating back to Bloodbath. And there have been many different iterations on it throughout the years. I haven't denied accepting a nerf to BW, I know first hand it ends up being overheal quite often anyways. But nothing about nerfing BW makes the other tanks feel more enjoyable to play IMO. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's not as bad as the [DRK Complaint Section] has suggested for the last 5-6 years. Like I literally just feel like telling the healer "sorry bro nothing else I can do" when I play another tank.



This is taking the argument to an unnecessary extreme. See above comments.

This is a trinity game, why do you view the tank being able to cover for a bad healer as a good thing. If you are letting a PLD die on a healer in a dungeon that more speaks to you needing to improve as a healer. Not any indication that the tanks sustain is justified in order to cover for this.

If you are struggling as a role you should die till you improve, not just have another role cover your shortfall for you

[whiskeybravo]

If you are struggling as a role you should die till you improve, not just have another role cover your shortfall for you

Yea that's a fair enough perspective, but I see no indication that it is part of SE's design philosophy for this game.

This is a trinity game, why do you view the tank being able to cover for a bad healer as a good thing. If you are letting a PLD die on a healer in a dungeon that more speaks to you needing to improve as a healer. Not any indication that the tanks sustain is justified in order to cover for this.

How is this any different from a good healer being able to cover for a bad tank. Would that make healer kits too strong? Or is that healers are supposed to cover for bad tanks but not the other way around?

Regardless, as others have mentioned, encounter design could play a larger role in all this too. There hasn't been any charybdis or doom mechanics so far. No healing reduced debuff. No Pox/Suppression type debuffs. No massive raid wide bleeds. There are still many other ways to keep healers "challenged", along with tanks. And maybe they're coming, who knows, they definitely seem to have stepped it up in other regards with new mechanics and whatnot.