M4S has officially been beaten without healers in week 2

[EchuKayu]

I think the developers really need to take a step back and take a look at healing, and by proxy, tanking. Even if we look past Savage, why is the only significant damage done during trash to a tank? Why not have enemies that blanket the party with damage? You can talk about dungeons not being difficult, the player base not being good enough, or whatever else, but those are just bad justifications to keep healers in a sorry state.

More consistent damage is something that should really be talked about. It's gotten to the point now that healers will actively whine about having to do their job, heal, if they have to cast a GCD to do so. If you asked me, if a healer/healers are not regularly casting GCD heals, your content is not well designed.

Ignoring the healing aspect here for a moment, why exactly is a job that spends more time DPSing than they do healing only doing so with one button? DPS as a healer should be something you squeeze in while healing - healing shouldn't be what you squeeze in during DPS. Maybe instead of so many % dmg reduction skills healers should never have been given in the first place they could've been given those buttons to provide some semblance of a most simple rotation.

[Daralii]

Shiva and Athena would like a word with you.

TEA is probably the best example because of how lethal Throttle was, but it's still only a handful of fights out of dozens that have dispellable debuffs.

[Silver-Strider]

It's gotten to the point now that healers will actively whine about having to do their job, heal, if they have to cast a GCD to do so. If you asked me, if a healer/healers are not regularly casting GCD heals, your content is not well designed

I don't mind healing. If I have to cast Medica 2, E. Diagnosis, etc. then whatever but these skills are just as bland and flavorless as everything else regarding healers. There's no proc to them, no gauge they build up, absolutely nothing that makes me want to press them over their oGCD counterparts. When we factor in that a handful jobs get enough healing to clear current Savage content, our current toolkits look like a poor joke.

[Chasingstars]

[ForsakenRoe]

I mean this has been done with TOP, P9S, P1S and P2S I believe. M1S has also been cleared with 8 tanks

E4S was also cleared with no healers. I am pretty sure P12S got cleared with no healers too, but I'm struggling to find a video (only a load of various reddit comments saying 'it happened').

If this is truly a 'fight design' problem, it's kind of a damning indictment of SE's direction that it keeps happening in all these different fights. More likely, is the thing that is the constant between each of these clears: The jobs themselves, and their design direction. As they say, 'if everywhere you go, you can smell sh#t, the first thing to do is check your shoes'

[Maltothoris]

E4S was also cleared with no healers. I am pretty sure P12S got cleared with no healers too, but I'm struggling to find a video (only a load of various reddit comments saying 'it happened').

If this is truly a 'fight design' problem, it's kind of a damning indictment of SE's direction that it keeps happening in all these different fights. More likely, is the thing that is the constant between each of these clears: The jobs themselves, and their design direction. As they say, 'if everywhere you go, you can smell sh#t, the first thing to do is check your shoes'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etKYa3K70ek Here is the p12s clear with no healers. My one point of contention on the e4s clear was this was in 5.1.

Edit: Looking back at it the change to the phoenix healing was by changing the duration of everlasting flight from 20 to 21 seconds so the healing only went up by 100 from 600 to 700.

[Aravell]

That's the problem.

(And no, my cohealers didn't carry me, they were on par. I don't parse but I went to check it because I was asking myself "Is this it? Where is the damage?")

As a long time healer main, I can tell you that the problem has existed since post-ShB.

In this tier, M4S, the hardest fight we have now in DT, I casted one Concitation before every instance of raidwide damage, that's not even required, it's just overkill. Yet I still spent 42.33% of my total actions on Broil IV alone.

How anyone can have any fun with the current 'mash one button for half your playtime' design of healers? I'll never know.

[sindriiisgaming]

It was also beaten without melee dps on week 1. Does that mean melee are a usless role now?

[Nadda]

It was also beaten without melee dps on week 1. Does that mean melee are a usless role now?

It's a great big cope people use to reinforce their beliefs.

It's a very poor way to have a confirmation bias.

When you should really look at what the standard group composition is which is more traditional to see that Healers are indeed a necessity for most groups.
As I've already made plain in my previous posts on the subject in this thread.

I'm not sure if my concept was too high brow for most people to understand but essentially if healerless were to become the staple best way to clear content I'd be concerned.

But because it's not - it's an outlier that doesn't really matter and shouldn't be used as a confirmation of subjective feelings some may have on the state of healing that isn't shared outside this vocal and incoherent minority that is anything Healer Strike Adjacent.

[Turtledeluxe]

It was also beaten without melee dps on week 1. Does that mean melee are a usless role now?

Depends on whether it was more efficient imo, which is doubtful. And in any case, DPS is something every job has by necessity. If anything pointing this out just makes the case further homogenization is needed for true balance i.e. stack DPS with healing and mitigation.

But because it's not - it's an outlier that doesn't really matter and shouldn't be used as a confirmation of subjective feelings some may have on the state of healing that isn't shared outside this vocal and incoherent minority that is anything Healer Strike Adjacent.

Where is your evidence that this is an outlier or otherwise requires expertise? People keep saying this. So where is the evidence?

And I would point out, saying a problem doesn't matter because consequences are occasional is a fallacy.

There's also nothing subjective about it. You can either clear the content without healers or you can't. What's subjective is your assumption that any given numbers of players can't do it.