#WukLamatMustDie

[Vensaval]

...her fight is against Bakool Ja Ja, where she can't hold her own...before being able to barely manage a victory against Bakool Ja Ja...

Which makes no logical sense. She travels with us, sure, but we're kind of a big group of very powerful individuals and all of that is done through teamwork. We don't see her train. We don't see instances of her becoming stronger along the way to make her feat against Bakool Ja Ja and his goons at least somewhat more believable. She simply is.

...She also begins to learn the importance of not speaking so directly...

She's sensible enough to hold suspicion to a leader of the nation that just attacked her own days before. I'll grant her that bit of common sense, at least. That suspicion is rather negligible, though. Since Wuk is extremely friendly with Sphene the whole way through and is still surprised when Sphene eventually "betrays" us.

She generally begins to operate away from hit everything with a big stick to knowing thy enemy...

I don't think she ever operates with "hit everything with a big stick". Aside from maybe when we meet her at the end of Endwalker? Her attitude of getting along with everyone is there from the very beginning. As with the Yok Huy that were antagonistic with us the moment we arrived to their land. She generally only attacks when someone poses themselves as a threat first.

Snip for length.

Yes. Her interactions with Zoraal are the only instance where that doesn't apply. Hard to say if that's character growth. May be a hint of character depth? Wuk deserves some credit, I suppose.

Whilst she recognizes this potential in Sphene, her big moment in the final trial (and dialogue beforehand in Living Memory) shows that whilst she still wishes to at least speak with her, she already knows what must be done.

My hatred of her moment in the final trial notwithstanding, this isn't indicative of character growth. She still behaves the same the whole way through. She's just attempting to sway someone that refuses to be. To no effect.

We have a clumsy, arrogant and optimistic woman get hit with lessons that humble her, strengthen her resolve, and level her characteristics out to more realistic expectations. I can't see how that isn't growth.

Because she's barely humbled, everything works in her favor (aside from Sphene), and her character never changes. She's practically the same exact character at the end as she was when we met her.

[Midare]

Oh dear lord, here comes the pigman again...

[Horack]

I'll agree that the fight against Bakool jaja was tense, in a manner of speaking. Do you know what happens if you leave Poochie to die? I do. Because I did. Nothing happens. You try again. Because Poochie is not allowed to know failure.

Bakool Jaja only had two keystones throughout the entirety of the Dawnservant arc. That includes the one he stole. It's not so much a matter of the was the weakest of the four, which i'll admit he was. It's the fact that he was a two headed Mamoolja, which the current dawnservant was. They literally filled a river with dead babies to try to make one of him, being a two headed being. It's not the fact that he failed his father, per se, it's the fact that he failed such a lofty expectation of what a two headed mamoolja should be. Regardless.

For you to say that Poochie is suspicious of Sphene is, techincally, correct. For all of five seconds. Poochie says "You are the Queen of Reason and that makes you an enemy." Speen then says "I don't like Zoraal Ja." Poochie then replies "Duh, okay! You're a good person, Speen." And that is it. For the rest of the later half of the story, Poochie is naught but on Speen's side. I haven't the slightest clue where you got the notion that Poochie was suspicious of Speen outside of their initial meeting since it is so clearly dropped right at the gate.

You say that Wuk Lamat wants to face Sphene as a person, rather than a machine. Because this is somehow indicative of her growth as a leader that will do "what must be done." I have to ask you this then... WHY did she want to talk to Sphene as a person instead of "robot"? She was so utterly desperate to find another way to resolve this conflict that you say she was already set in stone about not resolving but for only force. You cannot say that she was set in her way to kill Sphene as she was but also wanted to talk to Speen as a human. What would she have said at such a point? "Sorry that you want to kill everyone in the real world, Speen, but I wanted to tell you as a person and not a robot that I have to kill you anyways"?

Are you actually serious with this?

[BakoolJaJa]

Oh dear lord, here comes the pigman again...

Pigman be spitting facts though.

[Horack]

Do you know what happens when you fail any duty instance in the game? I do. Nothing happens. You try again. I can't imagine why you'd expect a branching storyline when that almost never comes up in this game.

So it's okay and meaningful to the story when Poochie has to suffer in a singular instance and you, as the individual player, find it difficult but it also loses complete meaning when it has no consequence whatsoever when it is failed? You cannot have both of these things be true when you want to use it as a point of growth for Wuk Lamat.

She's not oblivious to the fact that more's going on and wants to understand. And then when the reveal that Sphene was also behind the attack comes, Wuk Lamat is very much against her, she can't tolerate the deaths of her citizenry but then Alexandria comes under attack and she needs to save them as well.

I'll agree that she cannot tolerate the deaths of the citizens of Tural, nor should she. She is quite literally the newly crowned ruler of this nation. What's absurd is that she has undying faith in the fact that Speen is a good person, to the point that she will quite literally break time and space to say as much. She has no reason, whatsoever, to try to care for the people who have literally appeared on her front doorstep at the behest of her evil brother and tried to kill the people of her nation. Zoraal Ja wanted to kill her. She wanted to talk him out of it to a degree. We then learn that Speen was fully on board with Zoraal Ja. Poochie wants to talk Speen out of it.

She doesn't learn that Speen is a bad person. She takes Sphene's notion of being a benevolent person for her people, a wholly self sacrificing individual, at face value and never changes on that ideal. We have no reason to believe that if Sphene had yielded in those moments, even pretending to do so as a bait, that Poochie wouldn't have believed it fully, hook line and sinker.

I am. To the point where I've been talking with you way more than necessary. If you can't at least be civil, then I'm at a loss to why I even bothered trying to explain myself from the first.

I've not been rude nor uncivil in any of this. If you enjoyed Dawntrail's MSQ then I am happy for you. I just believe that your recounting of events is simply incorrect and inaccurate as well as your portrayal of Wuk Lamat as having had any measure of real character growth. She starts off as naive. She ends off as naive. That is what I think you were lying about.

[Midare]

Pigman be spitting facts though.

He's a wrestler wielding the truth and I'm his tiny announcer.

[Mnemy]

Oh dear lord, here comes the pigman again...

Wait what did pig man do? They seems fine?

[Midare]

No, that is what YOU are saying. That because we can restart any instance, it means that all of it was for naught and eliminates the tension. I don't subscribe to that notion yet you're using that as an example to discredit what I said.

Here's the thing though. If that had been a regular cutscene, Poochie could at least have had the possibility to lose and be humbled, it wasn't going to happen, but the possibility could have been there.

Instead, she was given a duty in which we control her, that, 100% ensures she can't fail that, because we can re-do the duty again and again no matter how many times we fail it (on purpose or otherwise).

Growth comes from failure, that's how characters learn. That's why Alphinaud grew after the Crystal Braves failed. Wuk Lamat didn't fail once, she was entirely protected from it, even to the point of cheating (Her dad handed her the leaves needed for the soft shelled tacos).

[Horack]

Wait what did pig man do? They seems fine?

I'm over 100% sure she meant it as a joke. Lalafell are known for their quick wit

[ovIm]

Here's the thing though. If that had been a regular cutscene, Poochie could at least have had the possibility to lose and be humbled, it wasn't going to happen, but the possibility could have been there.

Instead, she was given a duty in which we control her, that, 100% ensures she can't fail that, because we can re-do the duty again and again no matter how many times we fail it (on purpose or otherwise).

Growth comes from failure, that's how characters learn. That's why Alphinaud grew after the Crystal Braves failed. Wuk Lamat didn't fail once, she was entirely protected from it, even to the point of cheating (Her dad handed her the leaves needed for the soft shelled tacos).

While I generally agree with you, on the last part it should be noted that the leaves were reserved for whichever team tried to actually look into the history between the two tribes in the area. Of course, out of the 4 candidates, only Wuk Lamat showed an inherent interest in learning of the cultures she visited, so one could argue it was somewhat rigged.

Guess that is the one thing Wuk Lamat learned on her journey. "when you meet people, just learn about their culture and they will be nice to you." (somehow feels like the plotpoint of a childrens show.)