Behavior of English VAs and localization staff on social media

[Infindox]

Just don't follow her, then? I swear some of you people are obsessively monitoring everything this woman does to find any excuse to hate on her.

Kinda hard to not notice this when everyone and their brother is making a stink about it on not only Twitter but reddit. I don't even follow her and I got blasted by people talking about it.

Has this been an issue before with the english cast or only after they hired americans?

I don't think so. I know G'raha, Thancred, and Alphy's VAs are pretty chill with fans and Bakool's VA thinks it's hilarious how much people like his character.


I find it kind of annoying that this turned into people now trying to defend the song and anyone who goes "hey I don't like the song for *insert valid reason here*/I'm Black and didn't like the song" gets harassed about it. Saw someone trying to say "no one has a valid reason for disliking it". Uh.... I don't like how the vocalist sounds at points when I know she's very good otherwise? How about that?

[LilimoLimomo]

The reason there is an assumption of otherwise, is that people dont walk up to others to announce a spade is a spade.

One thing to be cautious of is accidentally making false equivalencies by comparing unlike situations; in-human social norms are meaningfully different from social media social norms. On social media, it's the most common thing in the world to post whatever thoughts you have about literally anything. So with respect, that's not a reasonable critique of her Tweet.

Given the recent issues both in DT and political climate, ppl are used to accusatory rhetoric sounding just like her post. Its may not be intending offense, but it's not completely unreasonable for ppl to doubt the intent.

It's great to doubt things. If you doubt something, that's a good reason to be cautious, or perhaps to try to get more information to either verify or disprove your doubts. I encourage everyone to feel doubts, as there are plenty of things in life that warrant such caution.

But this thread goes far beyond doubting. This is a public post requesting that a company exert control over their employee's actions. If you are suggesting that merely feeling some doubt provides ample justification for going after someone's livelihood, then I strongly disagree.

[BigBoom550]

One thing to be cautious of is accidentally making false equivalencies by comparing unlike situations; in-human social norms are meaningfully different from social media social norms. On social media, it's the most common thing in the world to post whatever thoughts you have about literally anything. So with respect, that's not a reasonable critique of her Tweet.


It's great to doubt things. If you doubt something, that's a good reason to be cautious, or perhaps to try to get more information to either verify or disprove your doubts. I encourage everyone to feel doubts, as there are plenty of things in life that warrant such caution.

But this thread goes far beyond doubting. This is a public post requesting that a company exert control over their employee's actions. If you are suggesting that merely feeling some doubt provides ample justification for going after someone's livelihood, then I strongly disagree.

You mean like Ms. Bryer has in the past?

Setting aside that Poison was trans (1989, when it was an actual statement) before Bridget was a twinkle in someone's eye (bridget being 1999, I believe), she demanded Bridget's VA step down because the VA was cis. I don't think that's remotely appropriate conduct and given that, alongside previous examples, I'm not inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt.

I likewise feel no guilt about it, as if it was appropriate for her to do, then it remains appropriate to hold her to account for her behavior.

[LilimoLimomo]

Setting aside that Poison was trans (1989, when it was an actual statement) before Bridget was a twinkle in someone's eye (bridget being 1999, I believe), she demanded Bridget's VA step down because the VA was cis. I don't think that's remotely appropriate conduct and given that, alongside previous examples, I'm not inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt.

We were never talking about a statement that needed the benefit of the doubt, as what she literally said was banal. There were only ever two possibilities: that you misunderstood what she said, or that you were willfully misrepresenting what she said.

I likewise feel no guilt about it, as if it was appropriate for her to do, then it remains appropriate to hold her to account for her behavior.

With respect, I recommend holding yourself to higher standards. I'm all for pushing back against folks who do ill, but if your means are dishonest then you'll alienate people who could have otherwise been your allies. When you willfully misrepresent what someone said, it's just going to give people who don't already agree with you a legitimate reason to stop listening to you and see you as a villain. So if you actually care about your cause, and if you actually have something worthwhile to say, then you're sabotaging yourself by making a sensationalized thread like this. Stick to the facts and you'll get farther.

[BigBoom550]

We were never talking about a statement that needed the benefit of the doubt, as what she literally said was banal. There were only ever two possibilities: that you misunderstood what she said, or that you were willfully misrepresenting what she said.


With respect, I recommend holding yourself to higher standards. I'm all for pushing back against folks who do ill, but if your means are dishonest then you'll alienate people who could have otherwise been your allies. When you willfully misrepresent what someone said, it's just going to give people who don't already agree with you a legitimate reason to stop listening to you and see you as a villain. So if you actually care about your cause, and if you actually have something worthwhile to say, then you're sabotaging yourself by making a sensationalized thread like this. Stick to the facts and you'll get farther.

Very well.

Sena Bryer, judging by her tweets, believes that she (as a transwoman) should have access to cisgender female roles. Now, to be clear on my stance, I do not care what's inside a person's pants when it comes to voicework. They can have an exceedingly large bowl of granola for all I care.

However, she also has explicitly stated that casting directors should keep in mind one's gender identity, culminating in the seeming position that she should have access to both cisgender and transgender roles, but cisgender women cannot take trans roles and must forfeit them if they have them.

This is already internally inconsistent. Either gender identity matters, or it does not. It's not a convinience, it's a state of being. Leeloo Dallas Multi-Trans is not on the table here.

If we follow the line of reasoning that one's genitals are irrelevant, then demanding Bridget's VA step down was wrong, and she needs to refrain from any implications of that in the future. An apology and deletion of the tweet- which is still up as of a few hours ago- would be part of this.

If we follow the line of reasoning that one's genitals and gender identity *are* relevant, then she should step down from the role of Wuk Lamat of her own accord, as Wuk Lamat is a cisgender female.

So please, defend her reasoning to me because I frankly just see someone entitled who now faces rightful criticism, and is cowering behind the shield of 'transphobia' when rightfully criticized. Her commentary's coming to light, and people are not happy about it.

[LilimoLimomo]

Very well.

Sena Bryer, judging by her tweets, believes that she (as a transwoman) should have access to cisgender female roles. Now, to be clear on my stance, I do not care what's inside a person's pants when it comes to voicework. They can have an exceedingly large bowl of granola for all I care.

However, she also has explicitly stated that casting directors should keep in mind one's gender identity, culminating in the seeming position that she should have access to both cisgender and transgender roles, but cisgender women cannot take trans roles and must forfeit them if they have them.

This is already internally inconsistent. Either gender identity matters, or it does not. It's not a convinience, it's a state of being. Leeloo Dallas Multi-Trans is not on the table here.

If we follow the line of reasoning that one's genitals are irrelevant, then demanding Bridget's VA step down was wrong, and she needs to refrain from any implications of that in the future. An apology and deletion of the tweet- which is still up as of a few hours ago- would be part of this.

If we follow the line of reasoning that one's genitals and gender identity *are* relevant, then she should step down from the role of Wuk Lamat of her own accord, as Wuk Lamat is a cisgender female.

This is a great post, thanks for writing it. You've done a great job of highlighting something you see as hypocritical and explaining your thought process, in a way that reads as reasonable and relatable.

So please, defend her reasoning to me because I frankly just see someone entitled who now faces rightful criticism, and is cowering behind the shield of 'transphobia' when rightfully criticized. Her commentary's coming to light, and people are not happy about it.

I honestly don't know what her reasoning is; at the very least, based on what you said, her reasoning doesn't seem obvious to me. I could make some guesses, but I feel like I'd invariably miss the mark in some way and I wouldn't want to accidentally put words in someone's mouth.

That said, the Internet being what it is, I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already asked (or demanded) that Sena explain her reasoning. Are you aware whether she's provided any manner of explanation, rationale, etc for either or both of these stances? I don't think it's impossible for both of these ideas to simultaneously exist, but I do agree that it isn't entirely obvious at a surface level. That being the case, some manner of further explanation seems like a reasonable ask from her to get everyone on the same page.

Regardless, thanks for taking the high road with me. ^^

[BigBoom550]

This is a great post, thanks for writing it. You've done a great job of highlighting something you see as hypocritical and explaining your thought process, in a way that reads as reasonable and relatable.


I honestly don't know what her reasoning is; at the very least, based on what you said, her reasoning doesn't seem obvious to me. I could make some guesses, but I feel like I'd invariably miss the mark in some way and I wouldn't want to accidentally put words in someone's mouth.

That said, the Internet being what it is, I'd be surprised if someone hasn't already asked (or demanded) that Sena explain her reasoning. Are you aware whether she's provided any manner of explanation, rationale, etc for either or both of these stances? I don't think it's impossible for both of these ideas to simultaneously exist, but I do agree that it isn't entirely obvious at a surface level. That being the case, some manner of further explanation seems like a reasonable ask from her to get everyone on the same page.

Regardless, thanks for taking the high road with me. ^^

You're very welcome.

As far as her justifying/further explaining that stance, I haven't seen anything. My loose guess would be she livestreams, but you'll forgive me for not going through VOD after VOD attempting to find something that may-or-may-not exist. I certainly didn't see anything on her twitter feed, but... well, it's twitter, and twitter is not something I'd ever call 'well-thought out' in content or purpose.

I apologize if I came across as aggressive before. I've had issues in the past with people misconstruing and misdirecting, and that may have resulted in a lack of clarity. Thank you for your patience.

[LilimoLimomo]

You're very welcome.

As far as her justifying/further explaining that stance, I haven't seen anything. My loose guess would be she livestreams, but you'll forgive me for not going through VOD after VOD attempting to find something that may-or-may-not exist. I certainly didn't see anything on her twitter feed, but... well, it's twitter, and twitter is not something I'd ever call 'well-thought out' in content or purpose.

That's a good point; Twitter is usually a place where you can find a quick sound-byte, but rarely a nuanced explanation of anything.

I apologize if I came across as aggressive before. I've had issues in the past with people misconstruing and misdirecting, and that may have resulted in a lack of clarity. Thank you for your patience.

I appreciate it. And honestly, it's cool. We've all got traumas of varying shapes and sizes that we can only do our best to navigate through; I know I've got mine! And even if we didn't, nobody's perfect, everyone makes mistakes, and we all deserve the chance to make amends and move on to do better in the future. So it's all good.

[Rueby]

Snip

This will be abit long, maybe I'll get banned for these thoughts tho I don't believe there's anything wrong with it. Sorry about that

It'll boil down to entitlement/discrimination, she sees the world as an unfair thing that stiffles her and her talent. I'd understand the frustration IF not getting gigs is caused by discrimination, but it could also be that she's not what they're looking for.

In that case her hatred is better directed at the people who are discriminating against her rather than the ones 'taking her jobs away' aka ciswomen. I can't imagine how well this will pass if this happened to someone who wasn't trans, I find it hard to imagine people defending someone so entitled and inflammatory.

She's a prime example of rules for thee but not for me. I want your job, but you can't take mine. I'm allowed to criticize but if you criticize me, then you're transphobic. She's either really unaware of her own behavior...or actually trolling.

So, back to entitlement, she thinks she has the skill and talent and that the ciswomen are the source of her woes. It strikes me as someone who is unable to self reflect but instead it's easy to blame something else. As an artist, I've seen many amateur artists fall into this 'can't handle criticism, must be something else' or end up with inflated ego 'I'm too good! look at this drawing I made', there's a difference between this and being proud of something you made imo.

I don't envy her for getting this level of backlash because I think others are responsible for this too, I don't think she should be the sacrificial lamb so to speak. Yet, she continues to post some strange takes to stir drama, it's hard for me to give her the benefit of the doubt since to me her intentions are clear.

I think plenty of people are frustrated about this prospect that you can't criticize her without it being turned into something about her gender identity when many of us don't care about her identity yet she wants to make it so. You don't like my performance because you're transphobic. Sadly, any criticism towards her is bound to get tainted by people who are transphobic which gives her and the valiant knights that she sends towards others something to latch to- disregard feedback and criticism and point the finger at everyone and call them transphobic.

I'm disappointed with the team, moderation and some players too. She's protected alright, but criticism isn't protected at all. It's easy to lock threads up than having to actually moderate because it's such a hairy subject and can quickly turn problematic because both sides are emotional, one with emotional sympathy and the other is frustrated that no one hears them and that they're speaking to a metaphorical brick wall.

I've seen my favorite game's community (DMC) get split up over the reboot where the people at Ninja Theory were blatantly shitting on the fans, funny how the reboot was an attempt to 'appeal' to western audience by a Japanese company. I don't want the same to happen to this community. I don't want to see people split up into camps by someone intent on causing drama. Yet I think DT might just be that expansion to finally divide us, perhaps we can say SB is shit but I think DT seems way more divisive from what I've seen.

The fact that she's going out of her way to provide us with more of her insightful hot and spicy takes with the intent to set people one against the other is something that leaves a sour taste in my mouth, even more so that she got such a prominent role but is acting so unprofessionally.

She destroys her own credibility with strange takes that even her supporters are fleeing because of how absurd that latest tweet was.

Perhaps you're apathetic towards it and don't mind it/don't feel targeted, to me I think her mentality is pretty bad and that behavior shouldn't be encouraged and called out for how absurd it is. Implying that someone is racist because they hate a song is inspired by gospel is such a wild reach and you'd be grasping at straws to believe it.

I went ahead and listened to some gospel music and I actually don't like it at all, I don't want anyone trying to twist my dislike for music as something racially motivated. It's art, you're allowed to love/hate it. Sure, maybe there's some people who hate it because they hate black people but this isn't the case with Sena. Someone in another thread said the song is inspired by gospel in a very superficial level. Personally speaking, I don't think Sena cares at all about that and I can see that this is an attempt to give herself the moral highground by trying to generally smear the image of the community into something racist/transphobic/bigoted just because some unhinged individuals (allegedly) sent her death threats.

I think it's dishonest to think that people won't see this and run away with it. You already see it if you critique Sena's performance.

She's not the first to weaponize her protected status, and she won't be the last. I don't think it's okay though, she's not above anyone else nor is she better than anyone else. I respect her right as a human being but honestly she's proving to be an awful one from what I'm seeing.

I sure hope that if I voice my opinion about her performance I won't get people twisting it into transphobia. Or if I hate smile, then I'm somehow racist. But if you're still unsure...it's already happening and has happened. Please look forward to being called a racist for hating smile too. People will see it as a greenlight to take it and run away with it.

These are my own thoughts about it anyway. I think Sena is extremely unprofessional and wishes to stir drama within the community to try and distract from the fact that many people don't like her performance. 'If you're focusing on the more pressing very very rotten parts aka racists and the transphobes, you're not focusing on ME'

Sorry if this is long, I couldn't help but be puzzled by your apathy when her behavior has some reprecussions especially when it involves a community as large as ours. If she was some random person on twitter posting on her wall, then I'd understand, but she's the VA of the most recurring character in the current top MMO. I expect a level of professionalism and restraint on her part.

I always thought it'd be best if she disabled her twitter for awhile to let this die off because it eventually will, but I guess all publicity is good publicity.

...like the only reason I know she trans in the first place is because people where quick to label me as a transphobe the moment I voiced my dislike of her performance.

This is one example, I'm sure you'll find many if you look hard enough. Maybe I'll get banned for this but here it is, it'd be funny if I do. The fact that one fears being banned for voicing their opinion is yikes.

[Dante131]

thanks for taking all my thoughts together. cant add anything more. Couldnt quote you because SE limits the letters even if you quote ....