Feedback: Dawntrail MSQ dungeon difficulty

[Banggugyangu]

Please cite your source for the playerbase/skill breakdown

Various MMOs have posted census data on what percentages of their playerbase has completed X content, which is a pretty accurate representation of their players' skill level. FFXIV has done this, and I have absolutely 0 desire to dig through the lodestone to find it, as it was ages ago.

[Jaxtaro]

Citation..not general "some MMO's released some demographic info", you made a specific claim that demographics can be categorized by skill level...which ones and where can I see this data?

[Banggugyangu]

Citation..not general "some MMO's released some demographic info", you made a specific claim that demographics can be categorized by skill level...which ones and where can I see this data?

Final Fantasy XI, FFXIV, WoW, Ultima Online, Everquest.... take your pick, practically every MMO has done it. It's always been posted to whatever the official news feed is for the MMO. It's a common practice for MMOs... I don't care enough to dig through said official news feeds to give you a link. FFXI used to do a content census every year...

[Jaxtaro]

Not a single one of those games that you just ramble off as though it was a "what MMO's exist?" list have released demographic statistics, as a matter of fact, the industry has been magnificently tight lipped about subscriptions, since 2000 when Everquest literally removed login population populations on their server lists. 3rd parties have provided as close to player population numbers as could be approximated.

The fact is, it not only is NOT standard industry practice, but it is the OPPOSITE of standard industry practice to publish even the most basic of population/subscription data, never mind as detailed information as parsing information by skill levels as you so boldly claim. The most cited source is the website MMO Populations, which uses as it's source...REDDIT SUBS...

There are a few scholarly demographic studies which break down subpopulations into standard demographic types (age, race, gender, time played, etc), the most cited being by Nick Yee, and Quantic Foundry which uses voluntary feedback), but there isn't a single one which breaks populations down into the categories you put forth as just...accepted fact. The closest are compiled market research based tools such as those derived from Google Play or Steam, and those tend to emphasize the need to produce current content for both major playstyle populations to maximize engagement.

What I'm getting at is...don't bandy your assumptions around and pretend they are anything but guesses. You didn't get published data by any of those games and you know it.

It is important to not neglect any substantive part of a playerbase, and this is precisely what you appear to be advocating. It makes perfect sense to make hardcore content which a very small subsection of the playerbase will accomplish, and which is much more labor intensive. It takes much more to create Savage and ultimate raids, both of which are good for the game, just as accessible content is good for the game's health, and to single out one to target for neglect is just bad for business, period.

[Banggugyangu]

Not a single one of those games that you just ramble off as though it was a "what MMO's exist?" list have released demographic statistics, as a matter of fact, the industry has been magnificently tight lipped about subscriptions, since 2000 when Everquest literally removed login population populations on their server lists.

From the official Final Fantasy XI website:
http://www.playonline.com/comnews/020730detail.html

Now... FFXI's is a bit harder to parse in regards to what I'm talking about due to the design of the game.

[Jaxtaro]

Did you even read what was written? That they aren't collated by skill level... read again so there is no mistaking...a general pop chart has nothing to do with your claim, AND that is a singlebgame out of all of those you cited...and it STILL doesn't support your claim in any wa, and even that isn't a pop chart

[Banggugyangu]

That's the very first one, before the NA version came out. Later on, upon the release of relic weapons, they started incorporating REMA completions, which were a fairly accurate indication of player skill. Alongside that, for a while they also showed a breakdown landmark mission completions, unique content clears, HNM kills, etc...

[Jaxtaro]

Extrapolating player skill in a game where it is trivial to carry now and this is your evidence? What's more, where is the citation from all the other games YOU listed as sources?

[Banggugyangu]

Extrapolating player skill in a game where it is trivial to carry now and this is your evidence? What's more, where is the citation from all the other games YOU listed as sources?

Except that those census reports were from a time when carrying wasn't trivial...... /sigh..... You're doing a lot of mental gymnastics to try to be right....

*edit* Also, you made a claim it doesn't exist... I posted proof it does....

[Alyx-Greywind]

I'm actually with Jaxtaro here, you threw out arbitrary numbers with zero citation. Anyone can make up numbers for an argument.