Dawntrail's MSQ story is a disaster and waste of potential. [full spoilers]

[Striker44]

I have literally never thought I'd say this, but *I'm still struggling to get through the MSQ. It's actually that bad.*

Every single part of the writing is just horrendous. Dialogue, characterization, conflict, handling of themes... I never thought FFXIV could fall this low after Shadowbringers. I'm someone who plays through the MSQ with alts *for fun, without skipping cutscenes*. Yes, even ARR and Stormblood, and even I am struggling to get through this. The current writers simply *do not have the required capability to handle this.* Please, for the love of all that is holy, either bring Ishikawa back or STOP UPDATING THE GAME.

Just stop. If you can't do better than this, let us at least live with the memories of better times. This isn't even infuriating- Stormblood was infuriating. Half of Endwalker was infuriating. This is just sad.

You know what? You can live with the "memories of better times". Either stop buying new expansions or head to other video game pastures that you find greener. If you choose the former, all of the content you find "better" will still completely and entirely exist. FFXIV isn't like D2 that puts things in a "content vault", or WoW that completely redid the world. Every single bit of story and content that you enjoyed will still be there for you to experience to your heart's content.

Because here's the thing. Literally everything else you wrote in your post is nothing more and nothing less than your own personal opinion. I had a very different opinion. I've very much enjoyed the MSQ in DT. To me, it's quite good. Almost every part of the writing I've found engaging. I've laughed, I've smiled as Wuk Lumat and Koana each grew in their own ways, I liked taking on the role of mentor for the first half of the story and then getting back to a "major" threat as a front-and-center WoL for the second half. ShB for me was a 10/10, and EW was a 9/10. I'd call DT an 8/10, which to me is fine since it's the start of a new arc rather than the culmination of an established one. The only thing I find "just sad" here is someone throwing a temper tantrum and demanding they "stop updating the game" for everyone else who's enjoying it because that individual happens to not like it.

Your "memories of better times" are still there. They aren't going anywhere. I'm enjoying the new memories I'm making alongside the old ones.

[Shibi]

snip

Some of us just hope SE might stop phoning it in and in 7.1 upgrade you from 8/10 enjoyment to 11/10 enjoyment.

Whatever it takes to get the writing team to lift their game up to the level a Western Audience expects (or should have expect) of an 'S Teir' title.

The airy-fairy waving of ones hands in a "it doesn't matter, I enjoyed it enough but it wasn't spectaular" dismissal doesn't help achieve that goal and just encourages "Every child is a winner" mentality in adult writers and story professionals.

People feel the writer's game needs to be lifted. An S-Teir story sees the continuation of the game past 7.1, that bar for 7.1 is now set higher by some people than it would have been. SE get one chance now to correct the mistake before the game does suffer the exodus of adult paying customers tired of being treated like children.

And yes, sometimes we should be more constructive in our criticism, but welcome to the forums.

[ZXN]

Sad thing is I'm a massive FF4 fan, FF4 was my first RPG so it feels like it should've been directed at me, but no the writing and characterization was just a drop off a cliff in quality.

I will possibly get the ire of people for this, but I despised Zero and the entire post MSQ of Endwalker. For a world that has creatures and lore implications that have been massively used in-game since 2.0 and even 1.0, it genuinely could've/should've been it's own expansion with how much potential was there. Instead it was reduced to a watered down speedrun of FF4's plot about how an angsty edgy woman whose main quirk is tipping her hat learns that the power of friendship overcomes anything and everything and results in her making peace and friends with everyone, including the big bad villain.

Huh...why does this sound familiar...

[KazukoHimura]

I will possibly get the ire of people for this, but I despised Zero and the entire post MSQ of Endwalker. For a world that has creatures and lore implications that have been massively used in-game since 2.0 and even 1.0, it genuinely could've/should've been it's own expansion with how much potential was there. Instead it was reduced to a watered down speedrun of FF4's plot about how an angsty edgy woman whose main quirk is tipping her hat learns that the power of friendship overcomes anything and everything and results in her making peace and friends with everyone, including the big bad villain.

Huh...why does this sound familiar...

And hamfisting sympathy for their aether hunger. As someone playing a character with an aetherial/metabolic disorder, it rubbed me the wrong way big time.

[lolnotacat]

I will possibly get the ire of people for this, but I despised Zero and the entire post MSQ of Endwalker. For a world that has creatures and lore implications that have been massively used in-game since 2.0 and even 1.0, it genuinely could've/should've been it's own expansion with how much potential was there. Instead it was reduced to a watered down speedrun of FF4's plot about how an angsty edgy woman whose main quirk is tipping her hat learns that the power of friendship overcomes anything and everything and results in her making peace and friends with everyone, including the big bad villain.

Huh...why does this sound familiar...

At least the monsters they met in the first didn't force Zero to make tacos to progress the story.

GOLBEEEEEEZ LEESTEN TO MEEEEEE!

[Remiferia]

I've not cared about the MSQ since 6.1, so I guess that tracks.

Sad thing is I'm a massive FF4 fan, FF4 was my first RPG so it feels like it should've been directed at me, but no the writing and characterization was just a drop off a cliff in quality.

I feel this way about Dawntrail and FF9.

There's some genuinely good stuff there like Sphene and the Endless creating a reverse-Garland/Terra solution to their problem of wanting souls to bring others back, but it was executed better in a game that came out 25 years ago on PS1 hardware because it was led by a better writer. Otis is a genuinely endearing character but that's because he's a carbon copy of Steiner in words and actions.

There's brief flashes of emotional notes about the meaning of life and the importance of memetic legacy but, once again, FF9 simply did it better with Vivi's short life, Zidane and Kuja's opposing worldviews on their true nature. Instead, Hiroi draws so much from FF4 and FF9 that the things he writes just become Member Berries for these older, much better games. FF14 itself now has its own internal spectrum of 'inspiration' to 'plagiarism' in how much it chooses to 'celebrate' these older works and Hiroi is at the forefront of coming dangerously close to just writing these older FF titles into FF14 wholesale every time he's given the opportunity.

Really excited for Gulool Ja to be a clone of his murderous father and we watch as he stumbles down a long corridor while Wuk Lamat and the Scions tell him he isn't alone.

[Shibi]

The worst monkey paw outcome would be an accident where Gulool Ja's head is somehow fused to Poochies body in a transporter accident.

[OgruMogru]

I feel this way about Dawntrail and FF9.

There's some genuinely good stuff there like Sphene and the Endless creating a reverse-Garland/Terra solution to their problem of wanting souls to bring others back, but it was executed better in a game that came out 25 years ago on PS1 hardware because it was led by a better writer. Otis is a genuinely endearing character but that's because he's a carbon copy of Steiner in words and actions.

There's brief flashes of emotional notes about the meaning of life and the importance of memetic legacy but, once again, FF9 simply did it better with Vivi's short life, Zidane and Kuja's opposing worldviews on their true nature. Instead, Hiroi draws so much from FF4 and FF9 that the things he writes just become Member Berries for these older, much better games. FF14 itself now has its own internal spectrum of 'inspiration' to 'plagiarism' in how much it chooses to 'celebrate' these older works and Hiroi is at the forefront of coming dangerously close to just writing these older FF titles into FF14 wholesale every time he's given the opportunity.

Really excited for Gulool Ja to be a clone of his murderous father and we watch as he stumbles down a long corridor while Wuk Lamat and the Scions tell him he isn't alone.

The first time DT whacked out some 9 music it actually made me cry, but not because I found it so emotionally resonant. I could tell it was a bellwether for all the things you just mentioned. I was crying and laughing and angry and was like Alan Partridge when people keep misquoting James Bond

[Pricia]

Agreed.

And mostly for me - foreshadowing has its uses but it ruined everything in DT. Might as well put a huge sign saying "Sphene is the bad guy who once again wants to kill others to save her people (so original at this point)" and "Koana is going to let Wuk Lamat win."

Ok, it was predictable anyway, but... come on.

[CuteBucket]

So many things went wrong with Dawntrail's story that I feel like something has gone very awry in workplace of CS3. We'll likely never know what really happened behind the scenes, but I have some thoughts.

We have three writers listed for Dawntrail's MSQ: Daichi Hiroi, Tomohiro Kawasaki, and Megumi Onozuka. Of these three, we know the most about Hiroi because he was in a previous Live Letter where the team talked about his history and which parts of FFXIV he'd worked on before. He's credited as the "Lead Story Designer" for Dawntrail. The list of his credits has already been posted previously in this thread if you want to find it.

Most of Hiroi's writing credits for FFXIV are...just fine. He's no Ishikawa, yeah, but I still enjoyed most of these stories and sidequests except for the 6.x patch series. I liked the Void Ark raids with the sky pirates, I liked Pandaemonium and had fun learning about Lahabrea's fucked up family, I liked a lot of the Stormblood patch quests story beats. When it comes to people pointing fingers at "who ruined Dawntrail" though, everyone seems to be pointing at him, because he's the team lead. I don't want to say "Hiroi did nothing wrong," because I don't think that's true, but I also think something is missing here to only blame him.

There's two other writers listed in the credits. Tomohiro Kawasaki is the lead writer of the Four Lords and Shadow of Werlyt Trial sidequests. The only other writing credit I can find for him online is for, uh...two games called "Nurse Love Syndrome" and "Nurse Love Addiction." He's not the lead writer in either, he's just listed in the writing credits. Despite the suspicious names, they are visual novels available on the Nintendo Switch, so they're not R18+ games. I have no idea if the story in these are good or not, but...yeah, not exactly a notable history of game writing.

Of those two, I would say Hiroi is already a better writer than Kawasaki. Hiroi wrote some job quests ranging from amusing to meh, but nothing in his portfolio stands out as something I actively disliked in any way (even the beginning of the 6.x at least had me interested, though it fell flat later), while Four Lords was pretty boring and Werlyt was...oof, what a can of worms. A big case of "interesting ideas, horrendous execution" if you ask me, which is also a consistent problem in Dawntrail's writing.

The last writer credited is Megumi Onozuka. Unlike Kawasaki, she has no previous writing credits to her name. The only thing we know she wrote is the Pixie and Dwarf quests in ShB. As Tribal Allied Society quests go, I'd say they're some of the better ones. I quite liked the Pixies, at any rate, but they're also not really that long or deep of quest lines. But nothing in those quests would indicate to me that she's a terrible writer or raise red flags. (source for the two other writers previous work here.