M4S has officially been beaten without healers in week 2

[Supersnow845]

If anyone who can parse purple can do it can you do it and upload a vod here? (not arguing that WAR isn't broken, but come on, a normal player isn't doing this)

Did you actually watch the video, the party had cactbot running the entire time yelling out the mechanics, they did nothing fancy with the mechanics (like how the healer less TOP clear had to rezz sacc the RDM on magic number) and they even had two people die on canons and they still didn’t even see soft enrage

This is like your average mid tier static reclear tier quality effort from the party members. Following a mit plan and not taking extra damage really isn’t some monumental achievement. The only reason an average person isn’t doing this is because hector guides PF braindead follows don’t use non standard comps

[Ramiee]

Did you actually watch the video, the party had cactbot running the entire time yelling out the mechanics, they did nothing fancy with the mechanics (like how the healer less TOP clear had to rezz sacc the RDM on magic number) and they even had two people die on canons and they still didn’t even see soft enrage

This is like your average mid tier static reclear tier quality effort from the party members. Following a mit plan and not taking extra damage really isn’t some monumental achievement. The only reason an average person isn’t doing this is because hector guides PF braindead follows don’t use non standard comps

It is really funny how often im reminded that people have no idea what theyre looking at or are talking about when discussing this stuff. Like people don't even recognise cactbot which literally tells them what to do so they don't even have to remember mechanics this is literally just a group of people who have done this fight once maybe twice and now they have a plugin telling them what to do and with that plugin telling them what to do they can perfectly do mechanics and it shows that if you can perfectly do mechanics you do not need a healer because damage output in this game is determinent not consistent. Hell this happens every single raid tier its just been way faster than usual.

[Striker44]

It is really funny how often im reminded that people have no idea what theyre looking at or are talking about when discussing this stuff. Like people don't even recognise cactbot which literally tells them what to do so they don't even have to remember mechanics this is literally just a group of people who have done this fight once maybe twice and now they have a plugin telling them what to do and with that plugin telling them what to do they can perfectly do mechanics and it shows that if you can perfectly do mechanics you do not need a healer because damage output in this game is determinent not consistent. Hell this happens every single raid tier its just been way faster than usual.

This sounds more like the issue is the (anti-ToS) 3rd party add-on. FFXIV isn't WoW. Its fights aren't designed with the expectation that people are running DBM (or its FFXIV equivalents). I don't see the issue as healers here; I see it as people using tools that should be getting them banned allowing them to do things that aren't supposed to happen. Your typical player not using those tools isn't going to do the mechanics perfectly (i.e. healers under current design are essential when players aren't cheating).

[koko-on-da-forumz]

I don't see the issue as healers here; I see it as people using tools that should be getting them banned allowing them to do things that aren't supposed to happen.

The entire point of bringing up the plugin is that if you need cactbot going, you're not like some high-end super master at the game (or these specific fights). Take it away and do the mechanics right, and it makes no difference except now you could make some argument that these are try-hard super pros.

That's not the case.

[Raven2014]

The entire point of bringing up the plugin is that if you need cactbot going, you're not like some high-end super master at the game (or these specific fights). Take it away and do the mechanics right, and it makes no difference except now you could make some argument that these are try-hard super pros.

That's not the case.

I feel like this is just a false assumption. Are you saying just because you're good at something, you won't be using something that make it easier for you?

When I do PF, sometime I make macro to call out stuff like (in/out) or (partner/spread) if I keep seeing people make mistake, so obviously I'm capable of tracking them.

But that doesn't mean I feel much more comfortable whenever I play with static and have a dedicated caller.

[Supersnow845]

This sounds more like the issue is the (anti-ToS) 3rd party add-on. FFXIV isn't WoW. Its fights aren't designed with the expectation that people are running DBM (or its FFXIV equivalents). I don't see the issue as healers here; I see it as people using tools that should be getting them banned allowing them to do things that aren't supposed to happen. Your typical player not using those tools isn't going to do the mechanics perfectly (i.e. healers under current design are essential when players aren't cheating).

I bought up them using cactbot because it shows they arent 8d chess playing players who cleared this without healers, they are basically just your bog standard mid level static players

The TOP healerless clear while it never should have been possible (and I mean mathematically not just fixing the coding of magic number) was at least actually done by what can only be described as world number 1 quality players

This clear is not

[Ramiee]

This sounds more like the issue is the (anti-ToS) 3rd party add-on. FFXIV isn't WoW. Its fights aren't designed with the expectation that people are running DBM (or its FFXIV equivalents). I don't see the issue as healers here; I see it as people using tools that should be getting them banned allowing them to do things that aren't supposed to happen. Your typical player not using those tools isn't going to do the mechanics perfectly (i.e. healers under current design are essential when players aren't cheating).

The tool was brought up to show:
1. Healers are NOT important. Damage output of a boss is DETERMINENT AND CONSISTENT you don't need healers, you need someone who can heal which tanks and dps can do.
2. You don't need to be good a god tier perfect gamer, you can be someone cheating to easily remove healers. Healers getting removed is common just because most people follow guides doesn't mean this isnt a problem, if people werent such sheep and only followed hector they would learn real quick you can drop 1 or more healers in most encounters week 2. You can also drop Phys range but thats a completely different issue.

Say what you want about ToS but the addons show that the games balance is terrible, if there was no addon there would still be a problem because if you just stay in a static where you learn the encounter you can drop healers because they are useless and uneeded when they shouldn't be.

[Somnolence]

It is really funny how often im reminded that people have no idea what theyre looking at or are talking about when discussing this stuff. Like people don't even recognise cactbot which literally tells them what to do so they don't even have to remember mechanics this is literally just a group of people who have done this fight once maybe twice and now they have a plugin telling them what to do and with that plugin telling them what to do they can perfectly do mechanics and it shows that if you can perfectly do mechanics you do not need a healer because damage output in this game is determinent not consistent. Hell this happens every single raid tier its just been way faster than usual.

I do not think this argument has much to do with the feat. Such tools would allow them to brain afk the mechs more so they can focus on gameplay.

But the execution of the strat is not the hardest part, it would be planning out all what is necessary and when. I bet there were plenty of failed attempts.

As you can see from the video, some parts are too hard to heal (stack before Ion Cannons) so cover + invuln cheese is required to pass as well.

The feat is not doing this without healers, its figuring out how to do it without healers - and the problem is that it is even possible at all.

[localareanetwork]

Did you actually watch the video, the party had cactbot running the entire time yelling out the mechanics, they did nothing fancy with the mechanics (like how the healer less TOP clear had to rezz sacc the RDM on magic number) and they even had two people die on canons and they still didn’t even see soft enrage

This is like your average mid tier static reclear tier quality effort from the party members. Following a mit plan and not taking extra damage really isn’t some monumental achievement. The only reason an average person isn’t doing this is because hector guides PF braindead follows don’t use non standard comps

I looked at the log because I assumed they were good players and didn't cheat. If anything that makes it worse than the "they're elite players" argument. If you need cheats to do anything then I couldn't care less about what it was because I already think it's dogshit.