Dawntrail vs. Stormblood? [possible spoilers]

[Plumerian_Ariadust]

And remember the Dawntrail song? You know, THE song? When it was used at the conclusion of the first half I didn't mind it much, honestly. But man. The train scene HURT.

The singing while building a suicide train. Good lord.

[KooriGraywolf]

Battle content however (specifically boss fight design) in Dawntrail are great, I appreciate the higher difficulty. And lv. 95 dungeon is one of my favorites in the whole game

[Shinku_Tachi]

I love all the expansions, including Stormblood and Dawntrail, but Heavensward has yet to be dethroned.

[TaleraRistain]

Stormblood was a lot more grounded. And characters were still written like human beings, acting in a believable manner. And before some brain rotted fanboy points out "hurr durr believable in a world with airships and moogles?" it's really simple. Good writing means the characters will act in a way that would be realistic for someone who grew in the kind of environment they're in, including fantastical ones. Which Dawntrail certainly doesn't do.

For that reason alone Stormblood is vastly better than Dawntrail and its shitty Disney kid show scenario.

Either from being intentional or just (hopefully) writer inexperience, DT definitely felt like it was written for a younger audience. Plot themes that would have been treated with depth and care in previous expansions were treated in much more superficial manners. Conflicts were presented and then quickly resolved, sometimes in what felt like juvenile manners. I honestly find it hard to believe the same game that had the cutscene with Tesleen or the cutscene with Quintus had an MSQ that felt this childish.

[Carin-Eri]

And remember the Dawntrail song? You know, THE song? When it was used at the conclusion of the first half I didn't mind it much, honestly. But man. The train scene HURT.

I actually really like "Smile". However, I recall that an instrumental/non-vocal version played initially during the train rebuild scene and think they should've stuck to that - there wasn't really any need to use the full (vocal) version of "Smile". I feel "Open Sky" would've worked better and they should've kept "Smile" for the 7.0 ending cutscenes.

[chizLemons]

I actually really like "Smile". However, I recall that an instrumental/non-vocal version played initially during the train rebuild scene and think they should've stuck to that - there wasn't really any need to use the full (vocal) version of "Smile". I feel "Open Sky" would've worked better and they should've kept "Smile" for the 7.0 ending cutscenes.

The whole train building scene is a problem, to be honest. I mean, like almost everything in Dawntrail, it's badly written and there's no buildup. It doesn't feel earned.
By using Smile we can tell the writer wanted it to be a happy, working together bonding moment where everyone we met on our journey helped us with our goal, but...why does it matter?! It doesn't! The music feels random, because it is. The whole sequence is random.
There was no struggle involved in getting all of those people together to build a train bomb, and nothing that makes us think "wow, after so much struggle, we can count on them now!", or even "I'm so happy to see those guys again!". At that moment, we are much more focused on our plan to break the dome instead of how to get the train together. The quest makes us think there's an element of urgency and thinking of the technical parts of putting the train together while we are worried for the people that were there, then it suddenly tries to be a character bonding moment where Wuk Lamat got everyone together by the power of peace and happiness. Open Sky would've felt just as bad.

They should've just played Machinations again.

[Carin-Eri]

The whole train building scene is a problem, to be honest. I mean, like almost everything in Dawntrail, it's badly written and there's no buildup. It doesn't feel earned.
By using Smile we can tell the writer wanted it to be a happy, working together bonding moment where everyone we met on our journey helped us with our goal, but...why does it matter?! It doesn't! The music feels random, because it is. The whole sequence is random.
There was no struggle involved in getting all of those people together to build a train bomb, and nothing that makes us think "wow, after so much struggle, we can count on them now!", or even "I'm so happy to see those guys again!". At that moment, we are much more focused on our plan to break the dome instead of how to get the train together. The quest makes us think there's an element of urgency and thinking of the technical parts of putting the train together while we are worried for the people that were there, then it suddenly tries to be a character bonding moment where Wuk Lamat got everyone together by the power of peace and happiness. Open Sky would've felt just as bad.

They should've just played Machinations again.

Fair points. Except for the comment about Machinations; that hideous noise is an instant 'mute button' click for me every time.

[Yaskaleh]

Stormblood to me is vastly superior when it comes to MSQ and characters despite certain things. We lost brother Papalymo, the voice of reason among the Scions. RIP.
Wuk Lamat is a 2 compared to Lyse that would be a 5 at her worst and an 8 at her best.
The raids, trials and duties in Dawntrail are top notch so far but Omega was really, really good. Made Midgardsormr my favorite character in all of FF14.
I also enjoyed the raids, liked the ending quite a lot. I am a sentimental man and being able to give a final rest and farewell to the Ivalice heroes was very touching.

[ZXN]

...We also know in hindsight that Stormblood's patch cycles were top tier. The jobs were fun, Eureka kept the community active (and the community was smaller, closer-knit, and not so....horny and pathetic?), Omega is imo the perfect difficulty for Savage, introduction of UCOB, Blue Mage, actual relics, it was a great time to play.

The only part of Stormblood I enjoyed was Doma. I genuinely didn't care at all what happened to the Ala Mhigans [Some kill Fordola's father in front of her when she was a kid and did probably who knows what other awful things to her and her mother growing up that we didn't see, and then do the surprise Pikachu shocked face when Fordola comes help keep them in check alongside the Garleans, GEE I WONDER WHY.] and Lyse really is just Wuk Lamat but much more tolerable. Meanwhile I absolutely loved Doma, although I might be biased because I really enjoyed Yotsuyu as a character and the entire aesthetic of the whole place and all the zones.

As you said, in hindsight, Stormblood patch cycles were STACKED. Eureka, the Omega Raid Series, the Ivalice Alliance series, Blue Mage, both UcoB and UWU, the 4 lords side trial quest. Sure the MSQ and post MSQ was pretty bad, but you cannot deny they made up for it with what the 4.X series of patches gave the players content wise.

There are a lot of things coming during the patch cycles of Dawntrail. Beastmaster, the FF11 alliance raids, Eden Ultimate, the relic grind, the new Eureka/Bozja area, Cosmic Exploration, and more. They certainly started off strong with The Arcadion, both story and battle wise, but we've got 2 years of Dawntrail to go through. If Dawntrail is shaping up to just be Stormblood 2.0, then the 7.X series of patches HAVE to deliver banger after banger after banger content wise.

[Aurumis]

I am having a hard time deciding in my mind whether I place Stormblood or Dawntrail higher (granted, we've still got Dawntrail patches pending). I might also be forgetting too much about Stormblood, or have Dawntrail too fresh in my mind. So help me make up my mind?

I do have some pointers:

Dawntrail pros:

• Overall premise is more interesting, personally. I could not care about Ala Mhigans and revolution/patriotic themes do not speak to me. The rite of succession and the subsequent twists seemed more compelling
• Zones/dungeons and their themes are way more interesting
• Mamool Ja lore reveal was a genuinely good writing moment
• Music is more bangin'

Dawntrail cons:

• Wuk Lamat mentioning peace every 5 seconds and getting way too much spotlight
• The activities in the zones were way too formulaic. Reaching literally every zone was "ok, let's get to know the locals". Stormblood at least had a more fluid and unpredictable sequence of events
• Barely any dark/gritty/philosophical writing moments, which we've come to expect after the last 2 stories
• Despite the FF9 nods, I expected more direct references, and the use of FF9 music felt forced at times
• The WoL was extremely unimportant to the story. We contributed nothing. I only got that feeling back when I started the Arcadion
• The high stakes at the end also felt too forced in. I know we need stakes but do we again need something world-ending? (by comparison, Heavensward was very grounded/contained and yet it's my favorite story in the whole game. I hoped for something like that)
• Despite the cool Mamool Ja reveal, how can the story try to force us to be sympathetic towards Bakool Ja Ja right away? I understand the need to win, but doing things like insulting Wuk Lamat have nothing to do with that

I am undecided whether I prefer Wuk Lamat over Lyse. If we removed the excessive obsession with peace, Wuk Lamat could've had a MUCH better personally, but alas we do have that and again the excessive spotlight time did not help.

Another good point to Stormblood, it gave us Sadu and Cirina (who I also really liked)

Am I forgetting anything?

I personally prefer the designs of zones and dungeons and the music better from Stormblood. But this are personal tastes.

On the other hand: I don't care shit about someone I don't fucking know to help them. At least the Ala Mhigan really needed our help, war with Garleans would be happening sooner or later, this indeed affects Eorzea, the tribes of the Steppe were better and alliances between countries are far more interesting that a rite based on a recipe, capturing an animal, and more stupid things. Also for someone who didn't care to get out of her comfort zone to learn of her people when she says all the time she knows about them and shit, I won't move a finger.