M4S has officially been beaten without healers in week 2

[ClaudeHerel]

playerbase incompetent, make whole role into training wheels

It unfortunately HAS to be this way, healers are literally that bad at the game.

[Aravell]

Can ask what should be the "solution" to this, but it would just be "lets remove all forms of healing/utility" on non-healer roles most likely which is generally what i hear. I can understand why people who main healer would want that, but I also think you have to acknowledge that it would hurt tank/dps design quite a lot by limiting what they can do, in how a job can bring something unique to the table.

It doesn't have to be outright removal to make actual healers more appealing. They could just make the party healing not completely lossless.

Imagine if Nascent Flash costs 50 beast gauge, maybe Shake it Off only has the shield and consumes 25 beast gauge for the heal and another 25 for the regen. Maybe Earth's Reply costs a GCD to use.

And there you have it, tanks and DPS still have agency and survivability but healers are much more appealing because they can sustain the party for cheaper.

[ZephyrMenodora]

Ah yes people build a specific comp around having no healers and clear... that's so wild, I'm not going to pretend this is shocking because clears without healers have been a pretty common trend.

I think if anything the trinity system needs to be actually reworked because it's clearly not working for support jobs (both tanks and healers).

Can ask what should be the "solution" to this, but it would just be "lets remove all forms of healing/utility" on non-healer roles most likely which is generally what i hear. I can understand why people who main healer would want that, but I also think you have to acknowledge that it would hurt tank/dps design quite a lot by limiting what they can do, in how a job can bring something unique to the table.

I'm personally against removing all forms of "non-healer" healing, but i think theirs cases where it can be tuned down, or give healers more advantages, Tank healing in some cases can be tuned down I don't think shake it off needs a regen, I don't think bloodwhetting should be per enemy ect, but in general some non-healer healing cooldowns I think are fine.

But I do think the "trinity system"... the current job designs needs a entire rework anyway.

DPS should simply not have group heals, period. They should get their self-healing skill and maybe a mitigation tool and that's that. If some of them have heals for flavor they should have a GCD cost to them at the very least, and not be so potent that stacking them replaces a healer.

Tanks I could see having limited heals but Warrior and Pld group heals are too much for the damage output we have.

Tanks should not be able to survive on their own for a half hour at a time. They should get overwhelmed without any assistance.

Lots of games did the trinity system without invalidating the healer role.

[Turtledeluxe]

That's my point...

It's like talking to a wall at this point

[Isala]

It unfortunately HAS to be this way, healers are literally that bad at the game.

When you cater to the absolute bottom tier of player, you GET the absolute bottom tier of player. If they actually had to put in effort in the first place, they could have either grown, or be filtered out of the role, like they should be. We should not be designing roles of responsibility for the players who don't want to put in any effort. That's asinine game design, and always has been.

[Wilford111]

I wish I could go back in time and clear ARR, HW, and SB content without healers just to spite you people. Literally a non-issue.

[Conando]

>YOU NEED TO PLAY SAVAGE THEY AMPED UP THE DAMAGE THE BOSSES DO, HEALING IS SO NEEDED NOW

Alright then, go do Savage without a healer.

[Supersnow845]

I wish I could go back in time and clear ARR, HW, and SB content without healers just to spite you people. Literally a non-issue.

I wonder why we didn’t have extensive discussions about job healer clears of old content when it was current

Maybe it was because besides that one 8 tank clear of A12s who had a notoriously weak DPS check it didn’t happen

[WaxSw]

This...is just a sad cop-out that says you know you can't actually refute the point being made.

There is no effort to refute your point because it has been refuted long time ago.

You say its because they are top players (despite this kind of clears because a common ocurrence) when the problem is that is mathematically possible when the tier is still at its peak power.

No matter how many top players you bring, you wont clear the dps check without dps or survive the tankbusters without a tank this early in the tier. The design demands for the unique traits of those roles but the same can't be said about healers.

This kind of clears show a fundamental disconnect between the healer design and the fight demands. Glaring issues to anyone who is willing to see them

[Lorika]

I wish I could go back in time and clear ARR, HW, and SB content without healers just to spite you people. Literally a non-issue.

To spite on what?
A coffin with already some dirt on it?

This post just show how a mess healing is in this game.
People can say whatever : *it"s just elite hardcore gamre that can do it*, * casual can't do it* etc... etc...
The simple fact that some free-healer party can do it is just plain wrong.

And when people say : healer player are bad.... yeah they never played actively healer then.
Because, seriously, all the dungeon/raid/trial that gone bad were mainly due to Tank fighting for the aggro or grouping boss + add together or don't swapping or just plainly tanking the boss in the middle and cleaving everyone..... DPS who prefere maximising their parse and standing in AOE, dismissing entire mechanics etc... etc...

And, we, healer, we are in the middle of this, trying yo keep everyone alive.... And when it doesn'y work we are the culprit.... "yeah it's the healers fault not us"

Stop BSing... The Healer role is in the pit because of SE, because of a part of the player that don't want to make an effort and never assume their shortcomings.

But, yeah.... Stay like this, stay on "it's the healer fault"... One day people will start wondering why almost no instance proc, why they must do everything with trust or getting caried unsync, why the skill level is so low that level 100 can't even do a basic mechanic (

Disclaimer : This post contains a lot of overexagered and over dramatic bait in purpose. But some are still within the realm of possibilities.