Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Voidmage]

but did we really need to humiliate the nation that attacked us by installing a ten year-old blue penis in rags as their Puppet King instead of having him pass over the keys to someone in Alexandria who actually had the needs of the nation in mind? We killed their leaders, we conquered them, and we made them an extension of Tural.

I found it quite funny that the credits narration more or less says that they are not amused but will have to accept it and then you see that resistance woman step forward with a serious expression and Wuk Lamat smiling proudly into the camera.
Seemed almost like a threat.

Really gave me vibes of forcing the new ruler on them without consent.

Big yikes.
But hey, they all are happy after that as long as they have gladiator fights, right?

Like seriously, installing a kid monarch without leadership qualities who is also the child of an unloved tyrant king?
How tonedeaf could they be?
Even for Gulool Ja, has anyone even asked that poor child if they even wanted to rule?

I really, really hope this whole stuff is brought up in the patches but I guess even then it’s played out as those “barbarians not knowing what is good for them and being hated from their own people”.

[Raven2014]

Really gave me vibes of forcing the new ruler on them without consent.

It's not a vibe, it's literally it under no uncertain term. She installed a new king after killing the previous king and queen, and tell people the child king is under her "protection".

That's straight up the protectorate playbook. France did this to a lot of countries in the 15th-18th century, and mine was one of them.

[ArcturusWhisper]

It's not a vibe, it's literally it under no uncertain term. She installed a new king after killing the previous king and queen, and tell people the child king is under her "protection".

That's straight up the protectorate playbook. France did this to a lot of countries in the 15th-18th century, and mine was one of them.

TBH I have a lot less issue with the "installing their ruler" in itself. I mean Alexandria wants to genocide the Source, it's good we put them under supervision. Sorry not sorry.

But why does Wuk Lamat get to decide who we should install just by herself? And she chose a kid that she just adopted which basically means she gets to rule by proxy? At the very least consult with Koana first?

[BabySneed]

But why does Wuk Lamat gets to decide who we should install just by herself? And she chose a kid that she just adopted which basically means she gets to rule by proxy? At the very least consult with Koana first?

The writers don't care about Koana, as far as they are concerned he exists solely to prop up Wuk Lamat's character
If they cared about him they would have had him, the guy who wants to bring mass technological innovations to Tural, be the one to accompany us to Alexandria where he can see for himself the people of Tural living under said highly advanced technology while seeing how such technology can be misused. On top of that the story seems to show that Koana knows Zoraal Ja better and has known him for longer than Wuk, therefore it would've made more sense for him to be the one to confront him. It's a baffling decision really, not only would it have greatly benefitted Koana's character but it would've been better for Wuk Lamat's character too for her to stay behind at Tuilloyal because then she can stand with the people of Tural while showing them she understands them by fighting and working among them, but of course that would require Wuk Lamat not being the center of literally every single quest in the MSQ and we can't be having that.

[ArcturusWhisper]

The writers don't care about Koana, as far as they are concerned he exists solely to prop up Wuk Lamat's character
If they cared about him they would have had him, the guy who wants to bring mass technological innovations to Tural, be the one to accompany us to Alexandria where he can see for himself the people of Tural living under said highly advanced technology while seeing how such technology can be misused. On top of that the story seems to show that Koana knows Zoraal Ja better and has known him for longer than Wuk, therefore it would've made more sense for him to be the one to confront him. It's a baffling decision really, not only would it have greatly benefitted Koana's character but it would've been better for Wuk Lamat's character too for her to stay behind at Tuilloyal because then she can stand with the people of Tural while showing them she understands them by fighting and working among them, but of course that would require Wuk Lamat not being the center of literally every single quest in the MSQ and we can't be having that.

I have seen many people proposed that we should have Koana accompanying us in the second arc and I think I agree. It would get Wuk Lamat away from us for a while and so more room to flesh out other characters. Both Koana and Zoraal Ja are characters with potential, but they squandered it with literally not actually giving them any substance. We are told their character traits and then that's more or less it. Showing how Koana and Zoraal Ja interact with each other growing up would have been good at making it more REAL. Now everything is just so superficial and sudden and...urghhhh.

[Striker44]

I have seen many people proposed that we should have Koana accompanying us in the second arc and I think I agree. It would get Wuk Lamat away from us for a while and so more room to flesh out other characters. Both Koana and Zoraal Ja are characters with potential, but they squandered it with literally not actually giving them any substance. We are told their character traits and then that's more or less it.

I don't see how Koana being the one to go with us would've made sense, though. The whole purpose of going inside the dome is to fight Zoraal Ja on his home turf. Wuk Lumat is the warrior of the duo; it makes sense for her to be the one going to fight. Koana is the thinker of the duo and familiar with the innovations he's brought to Tuliyollal; it makes sense for him to be the one organizing the defense. I just can't see a viable plot reason for them to swap roles there.

Koana SHOULD'VE been the one to go with us in the 2nd half. He could've went to Shaaloani to see that the Dustwatch he set up has corruption issues, see the issues that his train may have inadvertently caused to some of the locals and the local wildlife as a result, and maybe gotten some more backstory on him the nomadic family that just left him.

Same as above. At the time we're going to Shaaloani, both Wuk Lumat and Koana just became the Dawnservants of Resolve and Reason. Koana needs to be in Tuliyollal at that point, just like how Wuk Lumat (who follows us literally everywhere else) isn't with us for that part of the journey.

Koana changed the most during the rite, going from someone who pretty much didn't give a damn about his nation's culture and only about Sharlayan innovation, to someone who gradually understands it's importance and why it's not a hindrance. Meanwhile Wuk barely changed at all and solved pretty much everything in her path with peace and happiness and friendship, both during and after the rite. She was always pushed as "The Perfect Ruler" ultimately and Koana just existed to enforce that by giving up right at the finish line to declare she was the only one fit to rule.

What? Wuk Lumat started the journey as someone with no self-confidence whatsoever and didn't think she brought anything to the table, then steadily learned how her empathy is actually a valuable characteristic, that there are people you can trust and be vulnerable with rather than just showing false bravado, and ultimately that she can be (part of) a capable leadership team. Koana and Wuk Lumat were basically opposite sides of the coin; one started over-confident and thinking he knew everything, the other started without confidence and thinking she knew nothing. He learned there's things he didn't know and that other people could make important contributions; she learned she had something essential to contribute.

[ZXN]

...But why does Wuk Lamat get to decide who we should install just by herself? And she chose a kid that she just adopted which basically means she gets to rule by proxy? At the very least consult with Koana first?

The writers don't care about Koana, as far as they are concerned he exists solely to prop up Wuk Lamat's character
If they cared about him they would have had him, the guy who wants to bring mass technological innovations to Tural, be the one to accompany us to Alexandria where he can see for himself the people of Tural living under said highly advanced technology while seeing how such technology can be misused...-...It's a baffling decision really, not only would it have greatly benefitted Koana's character but it would've been better for Wuk Lamat's character too for her to stay behind at Tuilloyal because then she can stand with the people of Tural while showing them she understands them by fighting and working among them, but of course that would require Wuk Lamat not being the center of literally every single quest in the MSQ and we can't be having that.

As Sneed said, the writers most likely do not care about Koana at all. Just like every other character in Dawntrail, they exist purely to push Wuk Lamat's story and character as the MC and then get side-lined after their purpose is done.

Koana changed the most during the rite, going from someone who pretty much didn't give a damn about his nation's culture and only about Sharlayan innovation, to someone who gradually understands it's importance and why it's not a hindrance. Meanwhile Wuk barely changed at all and solved pretty much everything in her path with peace and happiness and friendship, both during and after the rite. She was always pushed as "The Perfect Ruler" ultimately and Koana just existed to enforce that by giving up right at the finish line to declare she was the only one fit to rule.

Koana SHOULD'VE been the one to go with us in the 2nd half. He could've went to Shaaloani to see that the Dustwatch he set up has corruption issues, see the issues that his train may have inadvertently caused to some of the locals and the local wildlife as a result, and maybe gotten some more backstory on him the nomadic family that just left him. He could've seen with his own eyes just how far advanced Alexandria is and then try to wrangle with the cultural implications of their soul system. Even in Living Memory he could've seen both just how far technology can go, and also the horrors of what it would take to maintain such a thing, resulting in S9 and the final 2 zones essentially asking himself "How far is too far with technology, and is it ultimately worth it?" and learning where to go from there.

Unfortunately, Koana is not named Wuk Lamat, so he becomes another Yes-Man and then gets thrown to the side because Wuk needs another dozen hours of talking about peace and happiness and friendship.

[ArcturusWhisper]

As Sneed said, the writers most likely do not care about Koana at all. Just like every other character in Dawntrail, they exist purely to push Wuk Lamat's story and character as the MC and then get side-lined after their purpose is done.

Koana changed the most during the rite, going from someone who pretty much didn't give a damn about his nation's culture and only about Sharlayan innovation, to someone who gradually understands it's importance and why it's not a hindrance. Meanwhile Wuk barely changed at all and solved pretty much everything in her path with peace and happiness and friendship, both during and after the rite. She was always pushed as "The Perfect Ruler" ultimately and Koana just existed to enforce that by giving up right at the finish line to declare she was the only one fit to rule.

Koana SHOULD'VE been the one to go with us in the 2nd half. He could've went to Shaaloani to see that the Dustwatch he set up has corruption issues, see the issues that his train may have inadvertently caused to some of the locals and the local wildlife as a result, and maybe gotten some more backstory on him the nomadic family that just left him. He could've seen with his own eyes just how far advanced Alexandria is and then try to wrangle with the cultural implications of their soul system. Even in Living Memory he could've seen both just how far technology can go, and also the horrors of what it would take to maintain such a thing, resulting in S9 and the final 2 zones essentially asking himself "How far is too far with technology, and is it ultimately worth it?" and learning where to go from there.

Unfortunately, Koana is not named Wuk Lamat, so he becomes another Yes-Man and then gets thrown to the side because Wuk needs another dozen hours of talking about peace and happiness and friendship.

Yeah this exactly. While I don't think Koana was too well-written either, he objectively has a character arc that Wuk Lamat doesn't. Gulool Ja Ja went on about how the trials of succession was about helping them grow, not merely picking a successor, but Koana was the only one who has changed? No matter how abrupt and unnatural it is written currently, he did change his long-held opinion on something. That can be counted as growth. What change did Wuk Lamat have? Nothing. She holds the exact same opinions and spout the same exact ideals as she did when she first met us. Nothing has challenged her worldview.

If as you said Koana's story can be explored more, if he can visit the S9 and understand everything that entails, his change could become a lot more natural and convincing and he would be an even better character. But none of that happened. It's just so frustrating.

[SableHahma]

TBH I have a lot less issue with the "installing their ruler" in itself. I mean Alexandria wants to genocide the Source, it's good we put them under supervision. Sorry not sorry.

But why does Wuk Lamat get to decide who we should install just by herself? And she chose a kid that she just adopted which basically means she gets to rule by proxy? At the very least consult with Koana first?

I just have to step in on this one. For all of the many many reasons I have issue with the DT story, and this scene in particular this one is just not a problem. Wuk Lamat is the leader of Tural, and she spearheaded the expedition into Alexandria, and helped liberate the kingdom from Zoraal Ja's Tyranny, and killed Sphene. The Scions on the other hand have immense political clout back in the old world, but in the world world especially Alexandria which is from another shard, our words don't hold much weight. As leader of a neighboring nation she's really the only one with the authority. It isn't even that crazy of an idea. Stuff like this did happen in real life.

[ArcturusWhisper]

I just have to step in on this one. For all of the many many reasons I have issue with the DT story, and this scene in particular this one is just not a problem. Wuk Lamat is the leader of Tural, and she spearheaded the expedition into Alexandria, and helped liberate the kingdom from Zoraal Ja's Tyranny, and killed Sphene. The Scions on the other hand have immense political clout back in the old world, but in the world world especially Alexandria which is from another shard, our words don't hold much weight. As leader of a neighboring nation she's really the only one with the authority. It isn't even that crazy of an idea. Stuff like this did happen in real life.

I will concede that it could make sense, realistically. But I think it all comes down to that everything just lacks weight the way it's gone about, and that makes me feel irritated.