Dawntrail Ninja feels great (mostly)

[Ramiee]

Ninja is a bit too oGCD heavy for me to get properly into but it does seem fine. I am kinda sad that all the rogue aethstetics are gone now with mug and trick attack being replaced but that's just me.

[RyuuZero]

1. Huton should give 5 Kazematoi, instead of being an AoE Attack
2. Kazematoi should also boost Raiju

I just don't like that Huton is an AoE Attack now.. it kinda goes against the NIN Muscle Memory..
speaking of Muscle Memory.. Hyosho Ranryu should be available at lvl50 have it the same potency as Raiton until lvl76, that way Muscle Memory won't get punished at low lvls.

But I'm sorry because Kazematoi feels more useless than Kenki without Kaiten.

[Zairava]

oh boy here I go again

1. Huton should give 5 Kazematoi, instead of being an AoE Attack
2. Kazematoi should also boost Raiju

Regarding Huton, it's actually better as it is now since we now have an aoe application of hidden. Making it grant 5 stacks of Kazemetoi renders armor crush near completely useless which makes the burst downtime boring for no reason at all.

Regarding Kazematoi boosting Raiju, I really don't like the idea of making it just yet another build and spend for your burst. I'd go as far it's one of the best parts about the gauge as it is now. I'd say that not having a use for it in aoe is a much bigger issue.

I just don't like that Huton is an AoE Attack now.. it kinda goes against the NIN Muscle Memory..
speaking of Muscle Memory.. Hyosho Ranryu should be available at lvl50 have it the same potency as Raiton until lvl76, that way Muscle Memory won't get punished at low lvls.

Regarding Huton muscle memory, all that boils down to is adjusting that. I thought it would take me longer but I got the hang of it by level 93.

As for Hyosho at 50, it really isn't necessary. Swapping Kassatsu use from Raiton to Hyosho Ranryu helps the job feel like it's actually evolved somewhat.

But I'm sorry because Kazematoi feels more useless than Kenki without Kaiten.

Really wish you'd stop comparing these two, it's apples to oranges.

Kazematoi buffs Aeolian Edge and you need to use Armor Crush to get them. It's absolutely vital for dps optimization and actively alters what combo you use so long as you have stacks of it. All you used Kaiten for was buffing the next Iaijutsu you were about to cast. It wasn't actively altering anything except preventing us from spamming the other ogcd spender (which just ended up taking Kaiten's place, so it further proves my point).

Again, I miss Kaiten for the flavor and playstyle as much as the next guy, but you're comparing two different systems here.

[RyuuZero]

As for Hyosho at 50, it really isn't necessary. Swapping Kassatsu use from Raiton to Hyosho Ranryu helps the job feel like it's actually evolved somewhat.

Yeah but the sense of evolution is revoked when you're synced to lvl50..
that's my point with Hyosho being unlocked at lvl50 because then your muscle memory wouldn't fight against you, or have you never performed a Kassatsu Hyoton by accident thinking it was a Hyosho Ranryu? lvl50 Hyosho would address that.

Really wish you'd stop comparing these two, it's apples to oranges.

Kazematoi buffs Aeolian Edge and you need to use Armor Crush to get them. It's absolutely vital for dps optimization and actively alters what combo you use so long as you have stacks of it. All you used Kaiten for was buffing the next Iaijutsu you were about to cast. It wasn't actively altering anything except preventing us from spamming the other ogcd spender (which just ended up taking Kaiten's place, so it further proves my point).

Again, I miss Kaiten for the flavor and playstyle as much as the next guy, but you're comparing two different systems here.

my gripe with Kazematoi is that you effectively spend it on one skill.. an entire resource to boost just one skill? sounds just too simple to me and rather surface level interactive.. which is why I want Huton to generate Kazematoi and also boosting Raiju. It also would lead to Huton usage in down times. I want Kazematoi to interact more with NIN's Kit.

[Zairava]

Yeah but the sense of evolution is revoked when you're synced to lvl50..
that's my point with Hyosho being unlocked at lvl50 because then your muscle memory wouldn't fight against you, or have you never performed a Kassatsu Hyoton by accident thinking it was a Hyosho Ranryu? lvl50 Hyosho would address that.

I could say that evolution is revoked with pretty much every job in the game except for Summoner and all four healers.

I don't see using Hyoton on accident as an issue. It's just an "oops, I forgot I'm playing Nin below lvl 76". Mistakes just happen, they should be embraced because they're natural. Not scorned and removed because people shrivel at the idea of messing up one Raiton use at low level occasionally.

my gripe with Kazematoi is that you effectively spend it on one skill.. an entire resource to boost just one skill? sounds just too simple to me and rather surface level interactive.. which is why I want Huton to generate Kazematoi and also boosting Raiju. It also would lead to Huton usage in down times. I want Kazematoi to interact more with NIN's Kit.

Even if Huton did give Kazematoi you wouldn't be using it during downtime because the potency provided is just simply not worth losing out on a Raiton and/or Raiju use during your burst. Also if Huton did give 5 Kazematoi that would actually be simplifying the job. You've basically ripped out any need to actually maintain it with Armor Crush except maybe 1-2 GCD's max. You would just end up with another Huton Gauge at best while as it stands right now actually makes the burst downtime feel more varied and impactful.

Like I said before, the only real issue I have with Kazematoi as it stands right now is that there isn't anything to use it on during aoe (and the lack of aoe Kazematoi gauge entirely as there's nothing aoe that provides it). I would rather they use Kazematoi to build on ninja's filler like it does now (although surface level currently) than just to boringly make it another builder spender for your 60s and 120s bursts.

[RyuuZero]

I don't see using Hyoton on accident as an issue. It's just an "oops, I forgot I'm playing Nin below lvl 76". Mistakes just happen, they should be embraced because they're natural. Not scorned and removed because people shrivel at the idea of messing up one Raiton use at low level occasionally.

Yeah, my point is that lvl50 Hyosho Ranryu would address that^^
aslong as lvl50 Hyosho Ranryu does the same damage as lvl50 Kassatsu Raiton we should be Good.

Even if Huton did give Kazematoi you wouldn't be using it during downtime because the potency provided is just simply not worth losing out on a Raiton and/or Raiju use during your burst. Also if Huton did give 5 Kazematoi that would actually be simplifying the job. You've basically ripped out any need to actually maintain it with Armor Crush except maybe 1-2 GCD's max. You would just end up with another Huton Gauge at best while as it stands right now actually makes the burst downtime feel more varied and impactful.

so.. to give the NIN the ability to boost the potency of Raiju is not worth to do a Ninjutsu for? okay.. with downtime, I meant when the boss isn't targettable. Other Jobs also have skills to do in that situation: SAM have meditation, MNK have forbidden chakra, NIN would have Huton to replenish Kazematoi once the boss is back. That was my Intention and I mean.. currently Kazematoi only boosts Aeolian Edge, to boost more skills with the resource would something I wanna see. And as you implied yourself, you still have to determine what to do with Ninjutsu. A Huton or a Raiton, Huton will boost your next Aoelian Edge & Raiju and Raiton gets Raiju Ready.

Like I said before, the only real issue I have with Kazematoi as it stands right now is that there isn't anything to use it on during aoe (and the lack of aoe Kazematoi gauge entirely as there's nothing aoe that provides it). I would rather they use Kazematoi to build on ninja's filler like it does now (although surface level currently) than just to boringly make it another builder spender for your 60s and 120s bursts.

Yeah that's another thing which Kazematoi makes it feel useless somehow.. It's a bit sad that we didn't got a Raiju Equivalent for Katon, I mean they still could use the Raiju Button for that Katon Raiju Skill (not unlike Tsubamegaeshi works for SAM) and that Katon Raiju could've been boosted by Kazematoi^^

My Overarching Point is that Kazematoi needs to boost more skills

[Zairava]

so.. to give the NIN the ability to boost the potency of Raiju is not worth to do a Ninjutsu for? okay.. with downtime, I meant when the boss isn't targettable. Other Jobs also have skills to do in that situation: SAM have meditation, MNK have forbidden chakra, NIN would have Huton to replenish Kazematoi once the boss is back.

Yes. You currently just use armor crush to gain the stacks backs when you've reengaged. Sacrificing a ninjutsu isn't worth the potency loss doing that. If this was an honest issue a better solution would be to give us 1 kazematoi per use of Throwing Dagger. Though I would personally prefer the reverse and have kazematoi affect Throwing Dagger.

That was my Intention and I mean.. currently Kazematoi only boosts Aeolian Edge, to boost more skills with the resource would something I wanna see. And as you implied yourself, you still have to determine what to do with Ninjutsu. A Huton or a Raiton, Huton will boost your next Aoelian Edge & Raiju and Raiton gets Raiju Ready.

Okay so I don't know how many times I have to say this but it would not be worth using Huton for it over Raiton. Huton would merely be buffing the potency of Raiju at best, Raiton grants Raiju ready. You are still just making Kazematoi a builder spend for your burst.

Yeah that's another thing which Kazematoi makes it feel useless somehow.. It's a bit sad that we didn't got a Raiju Equivalent for Katon, I mean they still could use the Raiju Button for that Katon Raiju Skill (not unlike Tsubamegaeshi works for SAM) and that Katon Raiju could've been boosted by Kazematoi^^

I don't really feel like we need a Raiju equivalent in aoe because we already have plenty we use in aoe anyway. The animation for melee range Raiju is so large they could just make that aoe in itself if they really wanted to.

And no, we don't need Kazematoi on it. I want to see it expanded with other abilities or new abilities to make the filler more engaging not make our burst more crit reliant than it already is.

Maybe something like Death Blossom generating Kazematoi and the gauge buffing Phantom Kamaitachi, Katon and Hollow Nozuchi.

[RyuuZero]

Yes. You currently just use armor crush to gain the stacks backs when you've reengaged. Sacrificing a ninjutsu isn't worth the potency loss doing that. If this was an honest issue a better solution would be to give us 1 kazematoi per use of Throwing Dagger. Though I would personally prefer the reverse and have kazematoi affect Throwing Dagger.

Throwing Dagger giving/consuming Kazematoi xD I like that idea^^

Okay so I don't know how many times I have to say this but it would not be worth using Huton for it over Raiton. Huton would merely be buffing the potency of Raiju at best, Raiton grants Raiju ready. You are still just making Kazematoi a builder spend for your burst.

tbh, it never was (I mean Huton over Raiton) though I'd like to have the Old Huton Philosophy to be preserved for it to be a buff. I had the Scenario in mind that the NIN is out of Kazematoi, the Boss Jumps off into untargettability (maybe casting something or so) and there is nothing to do.. well 1 Huton and 5 Kazematoi are back and ready once the Boss is returns.

I don't really feel like we need a Raiju equivalent in aoe because we already have plenty we use in aoe anyway. The animation for melee range Raiju is so large they could just make that aoe in itself if they really wanted to.

And no, we don't need Kazematoi on it. I want to see it expanded with other abilities or new abilities to make the filler more engaging not make our burst more crit reliant than it already is.

Maybe something like Death Blossom generating Kazematoi and the gauge buffing Phantom Kamaitachi, Katon and Hollow Nozuchi.

if it buffs Katon, Raiton also should be buffed.. or mayber/rather all Ninjutsu for that matter
to be honest I'm not a fan of AoE Melee Raiju but after what they did to Trick Attack, I can see it.. still not liking it though since FFXIV slowly turns into Dynasty Warriors imo.
but yeah Kazematoi should have more impact/utility as it currently has.

[Zairava]

tbh, it never was (I mean Huton over Raiton) though I'd like to have the Old Huton Philosophy to be preserved for it to be a buff. I had the Scenario in mind that the NIN is out of Kazematoi, the Boss Jumps off into untargettability (maybe casting something or so) and there is nothing to do.. well 1 Huton and 5 Kazematoi are back and ready once the Boss is returns.

It may not be your intent to be Huton over Raiton but you need to keep in mind that they use the same mudra/ninjutsu system, which more or less means they compete with one another innately. The damage Raiton provides both with itself and giving access to Raiju will always mean Huton is inferior and is a massive net potency loss.

if it buffs Katon, Raiton also should be buffed.. or mayber/rather all Ninjutsu for that matter

It was more of a spitball. They could give another aoe action that provides Kazematoi as well.

I could see Kazematoi from Huton being useful in aoe maybe, but you would virtually never use it for single target.

[Wolf_Necros]

I didn't enjoy this job at all maybe samurai will be a little bit better