Suggestion to Forum Mods: Copy ESO's Forum Rule

[LilimoLimomo]

I appreciate this response, but I feel the storyline of XIV can be discussed in the context of the fantasy world we are playing in. ESO is also very story-driven, with warring factions and rulers, but this rule did not prevent discussion in the Lore section.

For some aspects of the game's story and world that's certainly true, but not all of it. FF14 contains plenty of content that many would think falls under the umbrella of "political". The game contains lesbians and sex workers. Viera choose their gender when they come of age, fae entirely lack gender. The story presents opinions on capitalism, monarchy, wealth, class, disability, war, nationalism, colonization, religion, gender, and diversity.

So for example, is there a way to talk about how gender works for the Viera that is entirely detached from any ideas about how gender works in the real world? I honestly don't think there is. Any thoughts or feelings a person has about that are going to be shaped by what they've experienced in the real world. Even if I just say, "I really love how the Viera get to choose their gender when they come of age", a non-trivial amount of people will see that as "political" because gender as a concept is not isolated to FF14.

Because of that, I think a rule like the one you're suggesting would risk cutting off our ability to discuss aspects of the game world we enjoy spending time in, depending on how strictly it was enforced.

That said...

I went to double-check what the forum's rules are currently, and it turns out the rule you're requesting already exists. I'm just going to drop the link to the rules here, because I think most people will be surprised by some of them:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...p?do=showrules

Personally, what surprises me is how much of the content I'm accustomed to seeing on these forums violates at least one rule. Like, did you know it's against the rules to "criticize Square Enix staff or specific individuals"? And how often do you see that? And I consider the "Use of inappropriate or aggressive language" to (unfortunately) be a one of this forum's most defining features.

My assumption is that the moderation team are trying to thread the needle such that discussion can be allowed within reason; I'm also willing to bet that they are understaffed for the job at hand.

So unfortunately, I think that demonstrates that this rule wouldn't solve things, since that rule has been in effect since 2011. If there's a solution, it will require additional enforcement of the current rules.

[ZephyrMenodora]

For some aspects of the game's story and world that's certainly true, but not all of it. FF14 contains plenty of content that many would think falls under the umbrella of "political". The game contains lesbians and sex workers. Viera choose their gender when they come of age, fae entirely lack gender. The story presents opinions on capitalism, monarchy, wealth, class, disability, war, nationalism, colonization, religion, gender, and diversity.

So for example, is there a way to talk about how gender works for the Viera that is entirely detached from any ideas about how gender works in the real world? I honestly don't think there is. Any thoughts or feelings a person has about that are going to be shaped by what they've experienced in the real world. Even if I just say, "I really love how the Viera get to choose their gender when they come of age", a non-trivial amount of people will see that as "political" because gender as a concept is not isolated to FF14.

Because of that, I think a rule like the one you're suggesting would risk cutting off our ability to discuss aspects of the game world we enjoy spending time in, depending on how strictly it was enforced.

That said...

I went to double-check what the forum's rules are currently, and it turns out the rule you're requesting already exists. I'm just going to drop the link to the rules here, because I think most people will be surprised by some of them:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...p?do=showrules

Personally, what surprises me is how much of the content I'm accustomed to seeing on these forums violates at least one rule. Like, did you know it's against the rules to "criticize Square Enix staff or specific individuals"? And how often do you see that? And I consider the "Use of inappropriate or aggressive language" to (unfortunately) be a one of this forum's most defining features.

My assumption is that the moderation team are trying to thread the needle such that discussion can be allowed within reason; I'm also willing to bet that they are understaffed for the job at hand.

So unfortunately, I think that demonstrates that this rule wouldn't solve things, since that rule has been in effect since 2011. If there's a solution, it will require additional enforcement of the current rules.

Honestly surprised it was already a rule - I was going off the rules written in https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Discussion%21 where it was not included.

I am assuming there is a mod staffing issue - even things they do mod end up taking weeks to be moderated sometimes.

[Vensaval]

Very much agree.

It seems too many people nowadays have forgotten that the general goal of entertainment (games, movies, books, etc.) is and and always has been escapism.

I do not wish to be reminded of politics when I sit down to play a game. That's exactly the stuff I want to forget.

[1313]

I agree they need to enforce that, it's even an unwritten rule across all of na, in fc's and in nn, discords for xiv etc no religion or politics. people who go that route are either muted or banned. that should apply here. keep that brainrot bs out of here, we have enough of it as it is. I'm so sick of people trying to see things fixed in this game to have someoneon come out and start screaming about hate speech and gender nonsense etc like ITS A VIDEO GAME GET OUTTA HERE

[kaynide]

Kinda hard to just straight up ban talk on religion or politics in a game that lifts entire concepts wholesale from real world religions.

It’s already in the rules to be respectful, so that should be enough.

Context of the topic is important, so it’s better not to just outright ban.

[IttyBittyShark]

normally this is something i would agree with but typically nowadays one alignment is considered "safe and fine" and another one is considered "divisive". so whatever is deemed to be fine would not be held to the same standard as the other. but if both sides COULD be held to the same standard then it is something that i would be happy to see.

[lolnotacat]

I like the spirit of this request, as 95% of the threads that kick off their initial post by talking about things that would be considered "divisive and political" are clearly bait threads by trolls. And it would be great if those could be dealt with.

That said, I don't think this specific request is a great way to solve that problem, because so much of FF14's content is political. To remove players' ability to talk about anything under the umbrella of "political" would remove their ability to talk about aspects of the game that are meaningful to them.

Personally, I don't think the problem here can be solved by adding more rules: I think the problem is a lack of enforcement of the existing rules. Too much benefit of the doubt is being given to posts that are obviously just trying to stir things up.

More importantly, if they're not gonna enforce the rules that already exist, why would they enforce any more?

[Iscah]

So for example, is there a way to talk about how gender works for the Viera that is entirely detached from any ideas about how gender works in the real world? I honestly don't think there is. Any thoughts or feelings a person has about that are going to be shaped by what they've experienced in the real world. Even if I just say, "I really love how the Viera get to choose their gender when they come of age", a non-trivial amount of people will see that as "political" because gender as a concept is not isolated to FF14.

Firstly, there is a way to talk about that without being political, and it's "not labelling things political because politicians take sides on it".

But in any case, lore-wise you're mistaken on this particular front. Viera don't choose their gender at all; they have a gender and only develop into it at puberty, at which point they actually seem to fall into very strict cultural gender roles once they know which group they belong to. It is a totally different mindset to play around in, and personally I think would be interesting to explore their mindset on the subject, but the writers seem generally poor at following up on unusual cultural details like that for all the races – unless they've written a story deliberately to discuss it, it usually feels more like they write for generic humans first.

[Midare]

Kinda hard to just straight up ban talk on religion or politics in a game that lifts entire concepts wholesale from real world religions.

It’s already in the rules to be respectful, so that should be enough.

Context of the topic is important, so it’s better not to just outright ban.

Only when you're unable to distinguish between fictional settings and real life things.

Inspiration is not copy, and most times, the associations comes from personal biases.

[Magikazam]

Very much agree.

It seems too many people nowadays have forgotten that the general goal of entertainment (games, movies, books, etc.) is and and always has been escapism.

I do not wish to be reminded of politics when I sit down to play a game. That's exactly the stuff I want to forget.

I'm certain you played lots of game that has politics message you just didn't notice or that you didn't mind. To me, the issue ain't if politic are present or not, but at what ''layer'' it represented. As an exemple. The Last Saint Row was basicaly a woke propaganda. And I don't mean this as like ''Woke = bad'' but more like as they made the ''message'' as subtle as throwing a brick at your windows.

Now Compare it to any Metal Gear Solid game. The way Kojima tell his message is by using what can easily be considered normal gameplay mechanic or just game design. In the second game, The tutorial is a message about how media can manipulate you with the self-insert hero fantasy. The tutorial make you play Snake, the usual protagonist so far in that serie, but at the tutorial end, it just reveled to be a simulation and that your playing a different char named Raiden. It is revelead, at the end of the game, that Raiden, was manipulated since the start, creating a real life scenario for him, where he would basicly live his fantasy to become just like snake, A scenario that distracted him from questioning if the people helping him we're truly the ''good guy''.

It just a show don't tell issue.