Suggestion to Forum Mods: Copy ESO's Forum Rule

[ZephyrMenodora]

I would like to recommend that the Forum Mods copy an important part of a rule from ESO's forums, which is also similar to some other forums I visit:

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Inappropriate Content and Language: Certain topics and subjects are deemed inappropriate and not permitted on the official ESO forums. .... Inappropriate content on the ESO forums includes, but is not limited to the following:

• Real-world religion and politics

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These days it seems the forums are being taken over by identity political discussions. This topic is divisive and has nearly no relevance to sharing our love of and feedback for Final Fantasy XIV.

I don't need to know the political leanings of anyone here - and in fact I find sharing this to just be disruptive to a productive forum experience.

Thank you.

[LilimoLimomo]

I like the spirit of this request, as 95% of the threads that kick off their initial post by talking about things that would be considered "divisive and political" are clearly bait threads by trolls. And it would be great if those could be dealt with.

That said, I don't think this specific request is a great way to solve that problem, because so much of FF14's content is political. To remove players' ability to talk about anything under the umbrella of "political" would remove their ability to talk about aspects of the game that are meaningful to them.

Personally, I don't think the problem here can be solved by adding more rules: I think the problem is a lack of enforcement of the existing rules. Too much benefit of the doubt is being given to posts that are obviously just trying to stir things up.

[Sivante]

I like the spirit of this request, as 95% of the threads that kick off their initial post by talking about things that would be considered "divisive and political" are clearly bait threads by trolls. And it would be great if those could be dealt with.

That said, I don't think this specific request is a great way to solve that problem, because so much of FF14's content is political. To remove players' ability to talk about anything under the umbrella of "political" would remove their ability to talk about aspects of the game that are important to them.

Personally, I don't think the problem here can be solved by adding more rules: I think the problem is a lack of enforcement of the existing rules. Too much benefit of the doubt is being given to posts that are obviously just trying to stir things up.

This. It's a good idea, but may not be the solution in this instance.

[ZephyrMenodora]

I like the spirit of this request, as 95% of the threads that kick off their initial post by talking about things that would be considered "divisive and political" are clearly bait threads by trolls. And it would be great if those could be dealt with.

But personally, I don't think the problem here can be solved by adding more rules: I think the problem is a lack of enforcement of the existing rules. Too much benefit of the doubt is being given to posts that are obviously just trying to stir things up.

(And beyond not solving the issue, an additional rule like this would stifle legitimate discussion, expression, and feedback because so much of FF14's content is political. To remove players' ability to talk about anything under the umbrella of "political" would remove their ability to talk about aspects of the game that are meaningful to them.)

I appreciate this response, but I feel the storyline of XIV can be discussed in the context of the fantasy world we are playing in. ESO is also very story-driven, with warring factions and rulers, but this rule did not prevent discussion in the Lore section.

(Elder Scrolls also has decades of lore to be discussed as well.)

[LilimoLimomo]

I appreciate this response, but I feel the storyline of XIV can be discussed in the context of the fantasy world we are playing in. ESO is also very story-driven, with warring factions and rulers, but this rule did not prevent discussion in the Lore section.

For some aspects of the game's story and world that's certainly true, but not all of it. FF14 contains plenty of content that many would think falls under the umbrella of "political". The game contains lesbians and sex workers. Viera choose their gender when they come of age, fae entirely lack gender. The story presents opinions on capitalism, monarchy, wealth, class, disability, war, nationalism, colonization, religion, gender, and diversity.

So for example, is there a way to talk about how gender works for the Viera that is entirely detached from any ideas about how gender works in the real world? I honestly don't think there is. Any thoughts or feelings a person has about that are going to be shaped by what they've experienced in the real world. Even if I just say, "I really love how the Viera get to choose their gender when they come of age", a non-trivial amount of people will see that as "political" because gender as a concept is not isolated to FF14.

Because of that, I think a rule like the one you're suggesting would risk cutting off our ability to discuss aspects of the game world we enjoy spending time in, depending on how strictly it was enforced.

That said...

I went to double-check what the forum's rules are currently, and it turns out the rule you're requesting already exists. I'm just going to drop the link to the rules here, because I think most people will be surprised by some of them:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...p?do=showrules

Personally, what surprises me is how much of the content I'm accustomed to seeing on these forums violates at least one rule. Like, did you know it's against the rules to "criticize Square Enix staff or specific individuals"? And how often do you see that? And I consider the "Use of inappropriate or aggressive language" to (unfortunately) be a one of this forum's most defining features.

My assumption is that the moderation team are trying to thread the needle such that discussion can be allowed within reason; I'm also willing to bet that they are understaffed for the job at hand.

So unfortunately, I think that demonstrates that this rule wouldn't solve things, since that rule has been in effect since 2011. If there's a solution, it will require additional enforcement of the current rules.

[ZephyrMenodora]

For some aspects of the game's story and world that's certainly true, but not all of it. FF14 contains plenty of content that many would think falls under the umbrella of "political". The game contains lesbians and sex workers. Viera choose their gender when they come of age, fae entirely lack gender. The story presents opinions on capitalism, monarchy, wealth, class, disability, war, nationalism, colonization, religion, gender, and diversity.

So for example, is there a way to talk about how gender works for the Viera that is entirely detached from any ideas about how gender works in the real world? I honestly don't think there is. Any thoughts or feelings a person has about that are going to be shaped by what they've experienced in the real world. Even if I just say, "I really love how the Viera get to choose their gender when they come of age", a non-trivial amount of people will see that as "political" because gender as a concept is not isolated to FF14.

Because of that, I think a rule like the one you're suggesting would risk cutting off our ability to discuss aspects of the game world we enjoy spending time in, depending on how strictly it was enforced.

That said...

I went to double-check what the forum's rules are currently, and it turns out the rule you're requesting already exists. I'm just going to drop the link to the rules here, because I think most people will be surprised by some of them:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...p?do=showrules

Personally, what surprises me is how much of the content I'm accustomed to seeing on these forums violates at least one rule. Like, did you know it's against the rules to "criticize Square Enix staff or specific individuals"? And how often do you see that? And I consider the "Use of inappropriate or aggressive language" to (unfortunately) be a one of this forum's most defining features.

My assumption is that the moderation team are trying to thread the needle such that discussion can be allowed within reason; I'm also willing to bet that they are understaffed for the job at hand.

So unfortunately, I think that demonstrates that this rule wouldn't solve things, since that rule has been in effect since 2011. If there's a solution, it will require additional enforcement of the current rules.

Honestly surprised it was already a rule - I was going off the rules written in https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-Discussion%21 where it was not included.

I am assuming there is a mod staffing issue - even things they do mod end up taking weeks to be moderated sometimes.

[Midare]

That said, I don't think this specific request is a great way to solve that problem, because so much of FF14's content is political.

The "political" aspect of the game involves public and social affairs of fictional nations. Discussing that shouldn't go against what was proposed since they said specifically:

Real-world religion and politics

It wouldn't interfere with any discussion involving the game.

[lolnotacat]

I like the spirit of this request, as 95% of the threads that kick off their initial post by talking about things that would be considered "divisive and political" are clearly bait threads by trolls. And it would be great if those could be dealt with.

That said, I don't think this specific request is a great way to solve that problem, because so much of FF14's content is political. To remove players' ability to talk about anything under the umbrella of "political" would remove their ability to talk about aspects of the game that are meaningful to them.

Personally, I don't think the problem here can be solved by adding more rules: I think the problem is a lack of enforcement of the existing rules. Too much benefit of the doubt is being given to posts that are obviously just trying to stir things up.

More importantly, if they're not gonna enforce the rules that already exist, why would they enforce any more?

[Iscah]

So for example, is there a way to talk about how gender works for the Viera that is entirely detached from any ideas about how gender works in the real world? I honestly don't think there is. Any thoughts or feelings a person has about that are going to be shaped by what they've experienced in the real world. Even if I just say, "I really love how the Viera get to choose their gender when they come of age", a non-trivial amount of people will see that as "political" because gender as a concept is not isolated to FF14.

Firstly, there is a way to talk about that without being political, and it's "not labelling things political because politicians take sides on it".

But in any case, lore-wise you're mistaken on this particular front. Viera don't choose their gender at all; they have a gender and only develop into it at puberty, at which point they actually seem to fall into very strict cultural gender roles once they know which group they belong to. It is a totally different mindset to play around in, and personally I think would be interesting to explore their mindset on the subject, but the writers seem generally poor at following up on unusual cultural details like that for all the races – unless they've written a story deliberately to discuss it, it usually feels more like they write for generic humans first.

[DynnDiablos]

I agree. I really am not interested in someone's personal beliefs or politics on here. This should be for the game, and that's it.