Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[eohippus]

/snip

I'm so happy to see someone has made a comprehensive post of this. male midlander expressions look very bad after the update, to the point where my friends who don't play as them were all shocked when they finally saw a picture of what the default smile looks like on my WoL now. Its been a very disappointing aspect of the graphics update that I did not expect at all. genuinely found him difficult to look at in cutscenes. its like the corners of the mouth now only move up or down instead of moving OUT as well (like a smile does in real life)

[potatsdevourer]

I will state my piece of mind as well:
As of now this update makes it as if there is only limited light source and/or limited angle that is appealing for the new face, or making it familiar enough to me.
Here are some comparison picture.



Top is from pre-DT days, while bottom is post-DT. Now given nothing is the same angle/lighting wise, but it is still example to what regular situation that I face normally in in-game playing session and not controlled, favorable environment like the recently polished character creation and inn.
Heck, even the two examples on the right side of post-DT example was not changed from the old portrait setting but it change so much how the face interact with the dimmed light: bagged eyes, unclear iris/pupil, and somehow bluntier nose.
Simply put, I am still used to the pre-DT face. From the addition to the wrinkles on the brows and cheeks to the different nose shape to the more realistic sclera of the eye, it does not feel similar to me. It is so different that in no way I can see it having familiar features to the old one.
So I have to make some change to the character attribute, just enough to make me feel familiar but also not recognize him as the character I used to play with.


This has been looking great. I like my character model enough as tan Ken. But it means that I have to forget how my character used to look like. I have to move from those so-claimed same character settings to be dissociated from the old look I used to know.

Also, the direction to approach the eyeballs more realistic is nice and not. They jitters slightly which is nice, but damn they do not show clearly like they used to be in dimmed light, especially on lighter skinned character. To make the eye area have better contrast, somehow only dark skin is the "right answer". This is not what it used to be?
Another comparison picture, no saturation and contrast is amped up. The first two on the left is on same character attributes on pre-DT and post-DT, while the most right one is the one with tanner skin.

[CantDecide]

Here's a slider image of how the update affected my character (brow 1, eye 3, nose 3, lip 2, jaw 2, large iris, eyeshadow).

I'm going to bounce off some other peoples' posts to give my feedback because they've already done a good job showing the problems and fixes I'd like to see. Check out their full posts, too!


THE EYES

1. Catchlight and Eyeball Shading. I strongly agree with the changes to the catchlight and eyeball shading Avisse suggests below. This makes such a huge difference, as it was one of face 1's signature features!

2. Eyeshadow. The old eyeshadow option was heavier, and flared outward like a wing. I would like it restored, because the new one is much less striking. IkaRR demonstrates it well on the JP forum.

DT on left, EW on right:

3. Eyelashes. The lashes have changed, too. I would like the upper lashes to be shorter towards the inner eye, and fuller and longer towards the outer, like they used to be.

There is also a gap between the lower lashes and the waterline that the old eyeshadow option bridged. I would like for the eyeshadow option to at least fill that in again, but it would also be nice if the base lashes were moved up against the waterline somehow, regardless of the eyeshadow.




4. Eye Shape and Size. Eye 3 has a shorter x-axis now, and both corners are more downturned. If you look closely at the gif below, you can see behind the shading that the upper lid has come down a bit, and the lower lid has come up. This makes the whites less visible, and is a factor in the loss of the original impression. I would like the old shape and size restored, especially if the eyeball shading is to be brought back as well.




5. Skin Texture. As shown above, the old texture had some shading on the skin just above the upper eyelids. I think this added depth and helped to balance out the eyebags.

6. Under-eye Bags. I used to like the under-eye bags, but now they are too puffy! They've gone from adding subtle depth to the eye area, to being noticeably convex and unsightly. On top of that, the lower eyelids appear to jut out more and are catching too much light. It's especially bad with the eyes, but I think the whole face is suffering similarly.

(1/3)

[CantDecide]

THE NOSE

I would like the original, more balanced nose shape restored. The new nostrils are too wide and flared, and the bridge is too pinched in. In the character creator it looks blobby, and in-game it looks conical. But in both cases, it is more wedged and less elegant.

If you can't tell, I really like IkaRR's pictures.

THE LIPS

1. Shape. The philtrum used to be wide and shallow, so it caught less light and made for a more distinctive cupid's bow. The lower lip was shapely and slightly more pursed, and the outer corners more defined and upturned. The separation between the lips also rested lower and looked more natural. Now the lower lip hangs heavily under the pinched and deflated upper lip. I think the old traits made them both more unique and better proportioned.

I really like solbianca's comparison, and all three of her feedback posts on the JP forum are excellent.

2. Texture. The lips seem more faint and blurry in-game than before, and there is a red undertone that shows through even the darkest blue lipstick option. It would be nice if this was fixed.

There is also a sharp angle just below the lower lip that catches light and creates a harsh line. This should be softened in a way that doesn't detract from the shading, lest the chin appear bigger.




THE FACE AS A WHOLE

The eyes definitely need the most work, hence why they have all of Part 1 to themselves. However, everything I've mentioned has added up and completely changed the face as a whole, to the extent it is no longer faithful to the original like we were lead to believe the update would be. I've said it before, but I really don't like the more rounded down and neotenous style. I think it looks too generic, and a lot of charm and nuance has been lost.


I feel this gif by lira_m does an excellent job showing how the face has been stripped of its essence:

And noumen0nn made a good edit of what restoring some of the original features could look like:

Below, I have edited a screenshot of my character's new face in order to more closely mimic this shading, as well as other morph edits to make her facial features match her old face more closely.

(2/3)

[CantDecide]

THE BODY

1. Texture. As has occured in other races, the midlander model now has a noticeable discrepancy between the updated parts and the rest of the body. The skintone on her hands and face is a different shade, to the extent it looks a bit like she got sunburned while wearing a turtleneck. You can see the seams on her neck and wrists where the updated parts meet the old body.

2. Lighting and Geometry. The lighting clearly falls differently between the two, as well. It is especially obvious when running without full armour that a new head was transplanted on a body it wasn't meant for, and it looks really uncanny. The softened lighting along her jawline makes her head look too small relative to her neck and body. Reminds me a bit of how swapping heads on dolls can look.




CLOSING THOUGHTS

I've since fantasia'd to face 2. I really like how the eyes of that face turned out compared to face 1, and would be sad to see them changed. So I also sympathize with all the people here who like the update and don't want to lose the new changes. However, I would also hate for my enjoyment of them to be at the expense of any face 2s who might be mourning like I'm mourning face 1's eyes, so I'd like to repeat that I really want to see the new features added as options alongside any restorations. That way both can coexist in the game and the most people possible can be happy. :}

(3/3)

[CantDecide]

LIST OF DISSATISFIED FACE 1s

Here I'm just going to compile a list of all the less than satisfied face 1s I've come across, to boost visibility and gather them in one place. Apologies if I've missed anyone. I'll try to keep it updated until I get bored or run out of space.

• ikaRR on the JP forum
• solbianca on the JP forum (1, 2, 3)
• noumen0nn (1, 2, 3, 4)
• LlymlaenGreene
• aiqa
• Yenrz
• Thundertron
• NoxLuminos (1, 2)
• Araxes' Wife
• Trifecta739
• HawkeScream
• SugaryMiraa (1, 2)
• VessLynn
• Mercelia
• Verschlafen
• Siy
• Jihos
• Verdelot
• Ostheim89 and Pigeoms
• Gredunza
• lira_m
• Avisse
• Router and Kaziek
• MaiSuu
• Louhikko
• 1313
• MagicMush00
  

[CantDecide]

<reserved just in case I need to add more in the future>

[ConantSivrha]

(snip)

Thank you for bringing this up again. I agree with you. (I’ve also been considering making my own post on the subject, but, unfortunately, the video I took of a few expressions before the update isn’t very good, because I was ignorant of some basic functions of gpose at the time, such as zooming in farther than what is possible with just the mouse wheel, or changing the expression within gpose instead of exiting and re-entering gpose every time I wanted to change it.)

After the update, some expressions—especially smiles—just don’t look right. In my opinion, the most obvious problem is that the corners of the mouth mainly point up instead of being pulled up and to the sides when smiling.

I’ve mentioned that the mouth I use on my main (male miqo’te face 1 mouth 4) is significantly wider now than it was before the update. However, when smiling, it isn’t pulled wider in the way that a mouth should be; instead, the corners just move up vertically while remaining at the same or similar position horizontally, which isn’t really something you’d see in real life. I worry that if the mouth is changed to be closer to its original size (which I do want…in theory) the new expressions will become even more unnatural (which I do not want).

Additionally, the surprised-looking expression that the WoL sometimes makes in cutscenes (I think it’s /amazed /awe) looks very odd on my character (the face 1 male miqo’te) after the update. The eyes look larger than what should be reasonably possible, and the expression comes off more like helpless terror than amazement or surprise. In the past, it looked less cartoonish/exaggerated than it does currently, which I felt looked more natural on the face, and also seemed more fitting for the subdued personality generally shown by the WoL in cutscenes.

[oWither]

My male Keeper of the Moon Miqo'te eyebrows look really crushed in some expressions and cutscenes. Eyebrows are thinner overall than they used to be in pre-7.0 even in neutral. Every other change I have gotten used to.

(open images in new tab for comparison)

Character info:
Male Keeper of the Moon Miqo'te
Face: Type 4
Eye shape: Type 3
Eyebrows: Type 4
Facial Features: None

[TheDustyOne]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree that the expressions are too mild now. I think they're they opposite - they're way too exaggerated now.

<snip>

This is something that really needs to be talked about more because it was something I noticed even in the benchmark, but couldn't put my finger on what was wrong when I saw my character smile. At the time I just chalked it up to the face changes, but no, I believe they also reanimated the expressions entirely for the new head models (there are new bones in the face as far as I know) and the end result ends up looking uncanny. Maybe I should look through my older screenshots and compare, but something about my characters current /beam, /smile, and /simper is massively off.