Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[rxantos]

Are there any plans to enable RTX for those who have it?

[Cherrizini]

Viera - Veena Face 03

These issues are prevalent in most of the viera faces. I think they are most noticeable in face 2 and 3, but I will focus on face 3 since that is my character face option.

1.- Eyebrows
Eyebrows are non-existent if your pale veena has light hair.

2.- Nose contour is too dark.
I believe this one in particular should be a facial feature. It is already an option for face 1 male viera. The nose contour was perfectly fine, so I think this should be a feature rather than implementing it on ALL viera faces.

3.- Eyeliner and eyelash shadows are TOO dark.
Female viera makeup was already beautifully done, they did not need more eyeliner. The eyeliner change along with the new eyelash shadows make the eyes look smaller.

4.- Mouths lost the faint smile.
This is one of the most noticeable changes in face 3. All the mouth options make your characters either look sad or angry.

6.x | 7.0 comparison

[ConantSivrha]

Also--full knowing I'm going to sound like an ass here--I admittedly rolled my eyes at them claiming faces had "proportions fixed" (???) like there is a singular perfect ratio of proportions all faces are meant to have. (snip)

A huge thing I loved about FFXIV is how intentionally imperfect all the faces looked. They have deliberate character to them, and that remains in-line with each new race added. It's unlike any of the other 3D MMOs I've played, and I imagine it's part of why roleplaying and character writing is so popular in this community.

It's also why I have so many characters of different races and genders, too, and never used a fantasia on any of them during my 10 years of playing... If I wanted my characters to all look samey and like they had plastic surgery, I would have turned to mods years ago during their bizarre boom in Shadowbringers.

I agree completely. The “flaws” that were erased in the update were never mistakes, they were important parts of our characters’ faces. It’s frustrating to see people claim that our characters have been “improved” or “fixed” just because they conform more closely to conventional beauty standards, at the cost of the features that made them unique.

[noumen0nn]

I think it's worth saying again: I am happy for the people who like or prefer their characters' appearance post-update, but I have to assume that you also liked your character back before there was an update, or you even knew one was coming. I just don't think that can be equated to the impact of the update completely changing/ruining a character you already loved. And I stand by my statement that the majority of players who like the changes are not concerned with the same level of fine detail as the ones who do not. I think an update to make the faces more closely match their pre-update counterparts is a reasonable course of action that isn't likely to upset many people.

[illiere]

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I don't know who you are, but I was referring to assets that haven't been updated. Examples I've seen in discussions revolving around the Graphics Update;
- Complaints that environments or environmental assets haven't been updated yet (for example, lighting not being adjusted/'correct' in every area of the game, particularly old environments, or assets like Aetherytes not being universally updated yet.) The environmental changes were always stated to be spread out over the 7.X patches.
- Complaints around NPC assets that haven't been updated yet. For example, Yotsuyu and Zenos. Only NPCs who used Player Faces or who appeared in 7.0+ received updated assets. Feedback around issues involving NPCs that are yet to be updated (Yotsuyu eyelash clipping, Zenos low res) are mute.

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Preferring the old or new faces is purely subjective. To me, most of the changes from 6.X to 7.0 were improvements, and I'm voicing my opinion as such. I don't view changes as 'conforming to conventional beauty standards', I view them as improvements in achieving what appears to me to be the original intention behind the old face design.
A change in proportions would be like, mouths being a bit too low on a few Fem Highlander/Elezen/Roe faces, Male Miqo Face 3 having a really sharp indent in the upper eye crease that limited expressions, lip textures not aligning with the mouth of the mesh (it is unrealistic to have the mesh lips/mouth extend past where the lips texture ends, that's just not how mouths work), and so on.
If you don't like the changes, then I'm sorry. But I feel like I should voice my opinion in support of what they've made here because I do genuinely love what they've done with most of the graphics update and am worried that future changes will cause results that people who are happy with 7.0's graphics update to be upset.

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It's presumptuous to assume that people who like the 7.0 update don't look at the changes with a fine level of detail. That is not the case at all, it's purely a matter of subjective opinion as to what you like and dislike about the graphics update. I personally did scour over all the options in the graphics update for all races, discussed them with friends in discord, and spent like a month thinking over how I wanted to change my characters' face in the benchmark. I also didn't like quite a lot of aspects of the older 6.X assets, and to me, I see mostly improvements in 7.0.
Just because someone prefers the 7.0 assets, doesn't mean that their opinion and enjoyment is lesser than those who don't. It is entirely possible that people who are currently happy will be upset with changes made to appease people who complain now, which is why I posted in favour of the changes made as those who are happy aren't really going to be posting feedback.

[Doopliss]

...lip textures not aligning with the mouth of the mesh (it is unrealistic to have the mesh lips/mouth extend past where the lips texture ends, that's just not how mouths work), and so on...

Mouths...do work like that. They're not misaligned textures. The face just has defined oral commissures.

A quick image search can bring up real life examples of them.

It's just slightly exaggerated on ♀ Au Ra Face 2 as part of the character design. And that's also just a popular way to exaggerate this lip shape. You know, considering she's still an anime-styled, horn-bearing girl, after all.

It's presumptuous to assume that people who like the 7.0 update don't look at the changes with a fine level of detail. That is not the case at all, it's purely a matter of subjective opinion as to what you like and dislike about the graphics update. I personally did scour over all the options in the graphics update for all races, discussed them with friends in discord, and spent like a month thinking over how I wanted to change my characters' face in the benchmark. I also didn't like quite a lot of aspects of the older 6.X assets, and to me, I see mostly improvements in 7.0.
Just because someone prefers the 7.0 assets, doesn't mean that their opinion and enjoyment is lesser than those who don't. It is entirely possible that people who are currently happy will be upset with changes made to appease people who complain now, which is why I posted in favour of the changes made as those who are happy aren't really going to be posting feedback.

It's really not that presumptuous; many people have asked what those who liked the update liked particularly, and many didn't answer--but that doesn't matter. This is still ignoring the fact that it's really not an equal comparison in the first place.

It's not "simply" that people who prefer the updated feature changes are lesser just "because". It's that SE themselves promised us twice they would keep the impressions as close as possible. People who have had features for ~10 years suddenly losing them do hold more weight than those who have had features for a few months losing them. You can't pretend that those are equal.


Like, come on. This is definitely not "as close as possible".

[illiere]

- I'm really not sure how much this could be improved without overhauling the body/gear meshes, but the new shadows/lighting system does not play well with the low poly body/gear models. I often have dark lines/shadows on the edges of the polygons/models.

Continuing on with this;

- Miqo'te ears for both male and female, and on all hairstyles, seem to have a seam. It might be broken vertex normals, or a weird interaction with the new lighting system along the mesh's hard edges that creates these lines.




- I am using the highest settings + DLSS + strongest shadows. Like with previous examples, I do get some weirdness with shadows ingame, see the side of the mouth/lower cheek here;




- The new ear textures for all human (hyur, Roe) and elf (Elezen, Lalafell) ears look fantastic! I love how they all look, thank you very much for the work here! The only issue I have regarding these kinds of ears is that the geometry for Female Elezen's lower half of the ear could be improved, to match the much nicer Male Elezen ears. The Female Elezen ears misaligned geometry to their ear texture was distracting ingame. Both ears in this example are Ear style 1 at 25 length.




- There is artifacting/blockiness on the Female Viera body texture. It's a bit difficult to see, but more noticeable ingame where you can move the character around. I wonder if it's visibility due to my settings/screen, but I did notice the same issues in the 1.1 benchmark and it also affected the body textures for the other female races. The subsurface scattering also seems to create green/red artifacting on face textures, both of these could be decompressed and smoothed.




Link to Imgur Gallery.

[illiere]

It's really not that presumptuous; many people have asked what those who liked the update liked particularly, and many didn't answer--but that doesn't matter.

It's not "simply" that people who prefer the updated feature changes are lesser just "because". It's that SE themselves promised us twice they would keep the impressions as close as possible. People who have had features for ~10 years suddenly losing them do hold more weight than those who have had features for a few months losing them. You can't pretend that those are equal.

It is presumptuous, and it is unfair to say that because someone elects to not reply to you detailing what they liked about the graphics update, that means that them preferring the updated assets is of lesser value. No, people who preferred the old assets do not hold greater value then people who don't. It doesn't matter how long someone's been playing (I've had an XIV account since before ShB, does my opinion matter more or less based on how long I've played?)
Whether you prefer the old or new assets, or certain aspects of said assets, is subjective. My opinion is of equal weight to yours. My intention is to voice to CBU3 that people who are happy are significantly less likely to provide feedback as they don't feel any need to do so.

CBU3 has stated that they'd try to recreate the original assets but warned that there'd still be differences/minute changes/preferences which is why everyone got a free fantasia to create something that you like with the new assets. To me, they did recreate and improve upon the original 6.X assets, which is what I've repetitively stated. In regards to Female Au Ra face 2, I do think the 7.0 assets are an improvement over 6.X, and I feel it maintained the same impression of 'dainty, cute, doll-like'.

[GreenLeafy]

Snip

I think its extremely prejudiced to come in here and assume that all the ones who miss their old faces want for people who do enjoy the new look of their WoLst to have every single change reverted. If you look at a multitude of posts on this thread and others there are people who came in here happy with their faces and graphical update and faced no backlash. People who miss the old features wish to retain the option to have those features again. And say that in the same breath that the character customization menu should be expanded to preserve both old and new.
Its extremely entitled to come into this thread to voice your opinion and think it has higher merit even though it is YOUR subjective view on the matter whilst simultaneously ignoring everything that people have been actively fighting for on here for the past few months. You're lashing out at people who've been here advocating to preserve things that you've come to love with the update whilst also pleading to have that same courtesy extended to them for features that they found better in their opinion and have been taken away from them without a say in the matter when they've had them for near a decade.

Stop being an ego hyprocrite and learn some empathy , even more so toward people who have been on your side the whole time. The reason people are having a somewhat more resistant stance to you stomping your boots into this thread to fight against everything being fought for in here is because there have been countless more people exactly like you beforehand that have tried to silence the voices of people trying to get nothing more than some more extra options and variety for everyone that also preserve the integrity of racial and clan distinction that has been in the game since its conception.

[Larirawiel]

- I am using the highest settings + DLSS + strongest shadows. Like with previous examples, I do get some weirdness with shadows ingame, see the side of the mouth/lower cheek here;

The normal- and shadow maps are completely f****d up. I have reported it here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...e-Elezen-faces

But they closed it as "unsufficient information". And i have no clue why it is "insufficient".



Cheers