Pictomancer is insanely overtuned and needs to be fixed before savage drops.

[CKNovel]

Mantra doesn't work as a standalone action. Tempera Grassa is a 90 second recast defensive barrier that works on all types of damage. I'm sure that DRK and GNB would be willing to swap you for Dark Missionary/HoL. I think if they wanted to preserve PCT's identity as a 'BLM-type' caster, then the job should only have been released with Tempera Coat. I think adding another layer of defensives to the role (Magicked Barrier, Tempera Grassa) was a bad idea if you want the role to be damage focused, as you're essentially heading towards Physical Ranged territory with this. Addle is plenty strong on its own, given that magical raid damage tends to be more common.

Smudge is too powerful in its current design. 5 seconds of sprint uptime is a lot, especially when paired with a 20 second recast targetless gap closer. That gives you 25 seconds of sprint every minute. If you wanted to keep the Sprint effect, the recast should probably be a minute. Otherwise, the Sprint effect needs to be 1-2 seconds at most on each use.

No, I wouldn't trade Heart of light. Yeah it's a bummer I can't protect raidwide but on the positive it also makes me think about where I can use DM/HoL instead of just putting circle in circle hole, cubes in cube hole.
We also had too much mitigation, so going back to physical/magical raidwide to make shine different type of mitigation is good in my opinion.

Mantra doesn't work as a standalone and is very difficult to quantify, but due to its multiplicative nature, we know it is very strong.

We don't need more caster gear, we need less melee gear or better gearing options. It also makes no sense to balance jobs based on their capacity to swap to another job.
We should... Nerf Pictomancer because it can swap to SMN? I struggle to follow you, I don't see a world where it makes sense. Imagine a world where there's only 1 type of melee gear, you would nerf Viper because Reaper or Monk exists.

[CaedemSanguis]

Agree, I really don't understand where ppl get this idea that melee is harder and in more danger than casters in the game. Im guessing that just believing whatever the devs are saying or taking what they have said at face value but melee has never really been that hard or been dangerous role.

BLM is supposed in line with melee dps (or even higher, im not against that)
PCT slightly under melee dps (or equal to «*melee dps with party utility, im not against that either)

Better mobility + group shield + group heal

[Ramiee]

People really underestimate how strong mantra is.

[Supersnow845]

BLM is supposed in line with melee dps (or even higher, im not against that)
PCT slightly under melee dps (or equal to «*melee dps with party utility, im not against that either)

Better mobility + group shield + group heal

So by that logic shouldn’t MNK also be beneath melee

Group heal+better defence+heal up buff+bloodbath

Why do casters have to “justify” being equal to the melees when the melees get nearly the same utility and just do more damage because they are melee

[rewd]

BLM is supposed in line with melee dps (or even higher, im not against that)
PCT slightly under melee dps (or equal to «*melee dps with party utility, im not against that either)

Better mobility + group shield + group heal

PCT is supposed to be in line with BLM and melee because the developers have specifically stated so. You can agree or disagree, but they are the ones tasked with balancing and they do it according to their rules. Melee utility is not taxed so PCT's utility shouldn't be taxed either. If MNK and RPR are finally taxed for their utility and are consistently the weakest melees, then I have no problem with PCT being balanced around them. And even then, PCT being the most fragile DPS (if you use Tempera Grassa) while MNK being the sturdiest DPS along with SAM would also justify tuning PCT a bit higher in my opinion.

[CaedemSanguis]

So by that logic shouldn’t MNK also be beneath melee

Group heal+better defence+heal up buff+bloodbath

Why do casters have to “justify” being equal to the melees when the melees get nearly the same utility and just do more damage because they are melee

yes it should be

[CaedemSanguis]

PCT is supposed to be in line with BLM and melee because the developers have specifically stated so. You can agree or disagree, but they are the ones tasked with balancing and they do it according to their rules. Melee utility is not taxed so PCT's utility shouldn't be taxed either. If MNK and RPR are finally taxed for their utility and are consistently the weakest melees, then I have no problem with PCT being balanced around them. And even then, PCT being the most fragile DPS (if you use Tempera Grassa) while MNK being the sturdiest DPS along with SAM would also justify tuning PCT a bit higher in my opinion.

why choose blm over picto if he is easier and have a group shield and a group heal ?

[Ramiee]

why choose blm over picto if he is easier and have a group shield and a group heal ?

Same reason you pick a SAM over a RPR.
Damage.
BLM should do more damage than PCT but PCTs current damage is fine, BLM needs a buff.
Also people normally don't pick jobs, parsers do, if you choose to be a parser you're signing up for meta monkeying.
Even though double caster is clearly stronger most pfs still have caster/phys range.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

snipl

I agree that BLM should do more dam and still needs buffs now. BLM should be with the other selfish dps(SAM and VPR) no one is saying it shouldn't in this thread. What we are saying is picto needs to do similar dps as of a rpr/nin/mnk/drg. Picto isn't competing for the caster slot in parties, that spot will always be filled by a caster with a rez(smn/rdm). It's competing for the flex spot in a party and that seems to be a fact so many of yall are overlooking or forgetting. With the amount of jobs in the game that offer the same types of utilities picto doesn't stand out enough. Every utility PCT has another job as well. As some said MNK offers much better utilities than PCT yet its allowed to be one of the top melee dps. Also PCT group heal is barely a utility no one going to say "Lets take PCT bc it has a group heal that can only be used every 2 mins and cant be held." The group heal is more favor than anything like smn's healing abilities. I still don't understand why PCT even has a heal tired to a burst window dmg button.

As for the comment from Lyth about how PCT can easily swap to smn/rdm. All I have to say is, so? Why do you think we should balance a job around the idea that someone can easily swap to another job with better utility? That makes no sense. It seems to me you're just mad you can't easily swap around the melees but that's not a caster issue that's a melee issue. Go beg the devs to change their gear mindset and make it where there only one melee gear set instead of 3 gear sets. We cant help that melee is like that and on one here has asked for melee to be like that. Just because I can easily switch to rdm or smn doesn't mean Im going to. I HATE post EW smn, SMN used to be my main back in SB and ShB. Smn was my baby but it was taken out back just because ppl thought the job was hard or it didn't live up to their idea of what a smn should be base on the other ff games. Because of these ppl smn has been made into a job that plays itself and as fun as a wet paper bag. Either way my point is just bc I can switch doesn't mean I will and I bet others feel the same way.

At the end of the day PCT needs to stay near the other melee in terms of dam bc its has to compete for that 4th flex spot. Parties need a reason to bring a PCT over a 2nd melee or blm. PCT with no rez will never be able to compete for caster spot unless one day they decide to finally delete the bane on the caster role that is the combat rez but till that day comes every party out there will always choose or prefer a smn/rdm bc they bring a lot more value than PCT or BLM even tho they do less dps. PCT utility isn't anything special either any of the other melees have the same amount of utility as PCT and some have better utility like mnk. This why I don't see why PCT shouldn't be doing numbers similar to a rpr/mnk/nin/drg. As for BLM it still needs a buff and should be boosted to sam levels of dps.

[Supersnow845]

If we look at the collective savage statistics right now PCT is 3rd in rDPS on average (1st in gold), 2nd in cDPS (first in gold) and 5th in aDPS. We know that PCT is the strongest burster in the game but its averages are basically exactly in line with the rest of the melees and BLM (though BLM really suffers in cDPS)

Is this a roughly valid position for PCT to be in for people, all the melee are almost exactly equal right now, both the selfish and the utility melee and PCT sits with them, if you don’t want PCT where it is right now is your problem

1) its above BLM->if yes
a) would you buff BLM
b) nerf PCT
2) it sits with the melee in general
3) its gold parses are still quite high

I just really don’t see a problem with PCT’s damage profile except its comparison to being BLM damage but with utility but that’s not something that’s a valid comparison against the melees as they have equivalent or stronger utility on some of them. What is really the valid argument against PCT sitting where it’s sitting in regards to the melee (ie not BLM) that isn’t built on a nebulous belief that melee are hard and PCT is easy