Pictomancer is insanely overtuned and needs to be fixed before savage drops.

[feffe]

Regardless of people's thoughts on RDM and SMN's placing, it's clear that PCT isn't "insanely overtuned". It's ahead, but not by much. The classes it's competing with are very close, just NIN, DRG and BLM needs buffs to bring them closer to the PCT, VPR, RPR, SAM and MNK pack.

You can say that SMN and RDM are undertuned, sure, but that doesn't make PCT overtuned.

[Aurora428]

I may be wrong here but I think the patch that brings Savage is also going to bring some balance tweaks.

Honestly I admire your continued faith in the devs lol

[Sunako]

I think tempera grassa is overrated as utility. If you use grassa, you can not use coat anymore for personal survival. Caster have the weakest defense in party, so PCT himself need shield the most. I remember progressing ucob with SMN and there was times everybody else survived, but SMN died with exactly same HP than everybody else. Now SMN is pretty immortal with that new personal shield. Difference is actually pretty big, if you used to play SMN before 6.0.

[Ramiee]

I mean, try it. Go get full uptime on melee in M2, M3, and M4. I bet you can't do it. Keep casting kid.

I've played mnk, Sam and viper in all of those and full up time isn't hard at all.

[CaedemSanguis]

I've played mnk, Sam and viper in all of those and full up time isn't hard at all.

Ive played picto and viper/drg on m1-m4

picto casts are way easier than melee uptime

[YuuYun]

So currently the problem with balance is not really Picto anymore as we can see the adps chart looks like how it should be between Picto and the top melees. (used to be a problem when the highest adps was picto in EX2 and above Viper in EX1 which should never be the case for Adps)

Now the only problem is BLM (Needs a major buff/a rework since it feels like shit to play without transpose rotation) and the melee dps that are falling behind a bit (minor buff for NIN and DRG).
RDM is a discussion whether it should be buffed of not. Imo it should be buffed so its bit behind the other melees due to the amount of rezzes it can cast.

Other than that the balance is fine as it is for the dps role.

[YuuYun]

Actually looking at logs Picto can be nerfed a tad bit because the difference between 2nd rdps and picto (1st rdps) its worse than the difference between GNB and other tanks which is good but not great. So after looking at the data picto can use a bit of a nerf (Not a lot but a bit, maybe reduce the potency on some of those skills by a small amount will do)

[Realfoxy]

I'm not that worried about PCT damage for savage, it's just BLM (and really the casters in general) that need to be buffed.

I am worried about PCT in ultimates. The job already completely nukes trash pulls in dungeons with the way you get muses back, but that doesn't matter because that's just dungeons. However being able to cast muses during downtime in ultimates has the potential to create a huge balance problem, you can already see this in the limited data we have on legacy ultimate clears.

It's possible to design around this (have the downtime prevent any casting, use cutscenes/down for the count, have long uptime phases) but I don't like how the job gets so much stronger with downtime relative to all the other jobs.

[rewd]

I'm not that worried about PCT damage for savage, it's just BLM (and really the casters in general) that need to be buffed.

I am worried about PCT in ultimates. The job already completely nukes trash pulls in dungeons with the way you get muses back, but that doesn't matter because that's just dungeons. However being able to cast muses during downtime in ultimates has the potential to create a huge balance problem, you can already see this in the limited data we have on legacy ultimate clears.

It's possible to design around this (have the downtime prevent any casting, use cutscenes/down for the count, have long uptime phases) but I don't like how the job gets so much stronger with downtime relative to all the other jobs.

1) Legacy Ultimates don't matter because they are not balanced anymore. For numbers worth discussing, we have to wait for 7.X Ultimates

2) It's healthy for the game to have jobs that excel in different scenarios, because that means jobs are different and unique instead of being more of the same. PCT shouldn't be neutered to be the same as the rest but should instead be used as a model to have unique jobs again. Jobs that are stronger with downtime, or if you are forced to disengage, or if there are multiple enemies and so on. This requires the community to do a "culture" shift and stop freaking out because of irrelevant dfferences. As this thread shows this is a big demand, but you can't have unique and fun jobs that are also perfectly balanced. Note: for a lot of people "perfectly balanced" means that all melees deal similar damage, what happens with RDM/SMN and phys ranged doesn't matter.

3) Ultimates are more about mechanical execution and consistency, rather than DPS checks. A stronger DPS won't cause a "huge balance problem", not as much as you think. Balance exists to ensure that every job is capable of clearing every fight and balance is good if I can also clear without a perfect execution on my part (compared to other jobs).

[Realfoxy]

1) Legacy Ultimates don't matter because they are not balanced anymore. For numbers worth discussing, we have to wait for 7.X Ultimates

2) It's healthy for the game to have jobs that excel in different scenarios, because that means jobs are different and unique instead of being more of the same. PCT shouldn't be neutered to be the same as the rest but should instead be used as a model to have unique jobs again. Jobs that are stronger with downtime, or if you are forced to disengage, or if there are multiple enemies and so on. This requires the community to do a "culture" shift and stop freaking out because of irrelevant dfferences. As this thread shows this is a big demand, but you can't have unique and fun jobs that are also perfectly balanced. Note: for a lot of people "perfectly balanced" means that all melees deal similar damage, what happens with RDM/SMN and phys ranged doesn't matter.

3) Ultimates are more about mechanical execution and consistency, rather than DPS checks. A stronger DPS won't cause a "huge balance problem", not as much as you think. Balance exists to ensure that every job is capable of clearing every fight and balance is good if I can also clear without a perfect execution on my part (compared to other jobs).

1. Legacy ultimate balance should actually matter, SE just doesn't give a shit about it for some reason. I'd rather they keep it in mind while balancing than not.

2. I agree that it's good to have some job differentiation, I just don't think that having such a clear damage difference is good differentiation.

3. Really don't get this sentiment when DPS checks were a major part of on patch difficulty for TOP, and the DPS check for it was still relevant even a few patches later.

Anyway, I'd just prefer that PCT get some of its damage shifted into its uptime combos rather than its muses, that would mitigate the problem somewhat.