Pld buff or War nerf in 1.22?

[IceWing]

Easy fix. Leve warrior as it is. And improve the eminty from paladin AF. Eminty will be improved as materia, so with a boost to AF gear eminty ppl would think. Should I go with a tank that even if the guy handling it isn't a good tank, but can hold hate easier, but give less dmg, or should I use warrior as tank, that can atk stronger but needs someone who knows his way tanking to hold hate?

I thought about the same thing. just increase the amount of hate PLD produces, and pld could work out better then WAR in ifrit. such as, a pally buffing up and attacking the boss and allow the thms / other dps to just nuke the crap out of ifrit this would, fix the damage difference between war and pld. you have to give a war a couple of hits to gain enough hate to hold ifrit through a thm nuking the crap out of him. while a pally would beable to just run up there get ifrits attention and allow the thm's to nuke to their hearts content.

[Peptaru]

I think it's laughable that you think Wars crits a lot and get a sizeable amount healed from it on mobs that matter.
Pld gets Bloodbath too.
Aegis Boon, does have a 15sec longer recast, but force block and heal for more than Second Wind on mobs that matter.
Oh and then you still have Holy Succor and Cure.

War hardly ever parries without the use of Foresight on mobs that matter, but hey if you think blocking sucks so much and really think parry is the shit, remove your shield, now you can parry too!

But back to blocking, over a period of 180 secs:

You can use Divine Veil 3 times to have a 100% blockrate for 60sec.
You can use Outmaneuver 2 times to have an increased blockrate for 60sec.
You can use Sentinel 2 times to have an all over damage reduction for 30sec.

That leaves you with just 30 secs over a whole 180sec period "unprotected" in which you can still use Aegis Boon 3 times if you have managed your abilities properly or even just 2 times and it would still be amazing.

War can't do stunts like this with parry, so why shouldn't parry be a bit more effective than block since the procrate isn't has high.

You can go ahead and remove outmaneuver from your list of mitigation. It provides 60 seconds of "why doesn't the let me block anything ON MOBS THAT MATTER. People stack it with divine veil to get some use from it as it stands now.

[Jinko]

So the obvious solution is to nerf warrior so they can be a damage dealer (like we don't have enough of those already) because we can't have two tank classes which won't be as good as a monk or dragoon or blackmage and can't support like a bard.

Wow nice way to miss the point, the fact is that WAR acts as both a main tank and a DD at the same time, and thats why people choose them over PLD.

Nobody is saying stop WAR from tanking we are simply saying if a WAR chooses to tank they should take a hit in the amount of damage they do, now you could argue that the reason WAR keeps hate is down to its DPS output but thats what needs to be fixed, because unless it is people will continue to favour WAR.

I'd rather See SE buff wars dmg a bit and make them tank off pure DD and get rid of their gla sub for lnc.

But that's the problem, people currently choose WAR as tank mainly because they can DD as well as tank, increasing their DPS only makes them more favourable.

I don't think the PLD 's problems are based around enmity or hate control its basically they suck at mitigating damage (elemental damage especially) have lower HP and do less damage than a lvl 1 marmot. (assuming they actually hit the mob)

Its almost as if SE didn't even test this class because its pretty obvious where its problems lay.

[YuriSan]

ok... so what is PLD's particular tanking route?

Is it Damage mitigation that fails in comparison to more HP?

Is it healing that fails in comparison to second wind + Bloodbath + Rampage Crits?

Is it blocking that fails compared to Parrying?

I already said what are the things i like about being PLD while tanking in another thread lemme paste it here:

I always tank Ifrit on PLD and we kill it in under 10 everytime easy



We do Moogle fight with two tanks, I'm on PLD (kitting)
And off tank is on WAR to get Whiskerwall in Phase two.
Even tho WAR is starting with Collusion on a BRD's Barrage after a while i can take
Whiskerwall on me if i like to.
Don't forget the extra stats that come from a shield.
You can stack an additional 50+ DEF on it, Elemental res or even HP if u like too.
+10 ENM on the Thormoen's Purpose right there.


MNKs, BRDs and BLMs cant really hold a mog's hate for long from me.
By the end of phase one i usually have either all or most mobs flashing red on me .

In AV:
I am doing the poisonous rooms on PLD,
I have a macro which pops Divine Veil on me and right after pops a message in /p
telling to WHMs to throw a cure on me, POW! AoE regen on the whole pt without the need of Sacred Prism.
I help stoneskin and aoe cure in the two rooms with sacred prism alswell (My stoneskin is better than a WHM's because i have 359 VIT btw).
Also don't forget PLD can raise which is important aswell.
Not needing TP to perfor an AoE hate pulling skill is also key. Flash is instant and so is Wardrum,
If u pop aegis inside a clustered mob party that all hit u at the same time u will block instantly

In Coincounter:
I start with Sent + flash + voke, run to the tanking spot to aegis boom + war drum + phalanx + spirits within.
Then spam Flat blade combo.
If Coincounter swings i run through him towards the party and Rampart there while he is on his ass
and on my way back to my tanking spot i pop riot blade on his back to start off the rage of halone combo. My full BLM party goes all out on him and i totally have control, never ever lose hate, no potions or nothing.
If things go wrong and i die i can pop hallowed ground after raised and i can run through the chaos to gain
hate control back on me. NOTHING can kill me no swings nor swipes .

And damagewise Rage of Halone, gorging blade and spirits within combo are just fine

It all depends on what each person preffers.

Yuri San tanks better on PLD and generally finds PLD more useful in a party. (not a soloing class for sure)

Anyway this is my last post here dudes. tired of this debate lol.. cheers.

[Searious]

Hopefully they only buff Pld. I hate nerfs.

[KumaAkuma]

Wow nice way to miss the point, the fact is that WAR acts as both a main tank and a DD at the same time, and thats why people choose them over PLD.

Nobody is saying stop WAR from tanking we are simply saying if a WAR chooses to tank they should take a hit in the amount of damage they do, now you could argue that the reason WAR keeps hate is down to its DPS output but thats what needs to be fixed, because unless it is people will continue to favour WAR.



But that's the problem, people currently choose WAR as tank mainly because they can DD as well as tank, increasing their DPS only makes them more favourable.

I think all agree that War does more damage than Pld, but that doesn't mean War's damage is up there with the real damage dealers, unless they suck, War will parse last on mobs that matter.

[Nighthawk]

A Paladin buff would be best. But then again we will find out soon enough.

[Colino]

I think all agree that War does more damage than Pld, but that doesn't mean War's damage is up there with the real damage dealers, unless they suck, War will parse last on mobs that matter.

But they still parse way more than a PLD ever would (which is fine) but can also tank just as well on mobs that matter.

Allowing PLD to build more enmity isn't that much help since, again, WAR can do just as well. What needs to be done is dramatically increase PLD's defensive skills so that they're REAL tanks, allowing you for example to run with one less whm and replace it with a blm or a DD that would greatly out damage whatever the WAR would have done.

[Holyomen]

Give Paladin more HP than GLA.
Make Holy Succor instant cast and cut the MP cost in half.
Then give Paladin some serious Healing Potency gear and self Refresh.
Problem solved.

[Colino]

Give Paladin more HP than GLA.
Make Holy Succor instant cast and cut the MP cost in half.
Then give Paladin some serious Healing Potency gear and self Refresh.
Problem solved.

Pretty much. It's not that hard to do.