Is this a plothole? Question about the Endless

[Steelpapercranes]

If you ask me WHICH version of the Endless presentation I prefer, than Mechanical Otis is far superior than the zone 6 Endless. But like I said, his existence kinda just invalidate all the sentimental strings that zone 6 tried to pull. It would also a real condominium for us because it's much easier to make the argument that mechanical Otis is a actual life form and not just a memory.

This is my personal theory as to why mecha-Otis was killed so suddenly and so pointlessly. If we had 'living' Otis exist at the same time as 'Endless' Otis (well, they DID exist at the same time for like 400 years but I guess they want us to think about it), it would kind of make it unacceptably clear how what they're going for emotionally in living memory is NOT what's happening lol. They had to make sure he wasn't around in the hopes that we just wouldn't think that hard about it.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

This is my personal theory as to why mecha-Otis was killed so suddenly and so pointlessly. If we had 'living' Otis exist at the same time as 'Endless' Otis (well, they DID exist at the same time for like 400 years but I guess they want us to think about it), it would kind of make it unacceptably clear how what they're going for emotionally in living memory is NOT what's happening lol. They had to make sure he wasn't around in the hopes that we just wouldn't think that hard about it.

It also begs the question why they went with the Endless that require an ever increasing amount of aether that would eventually destroy all life in the universe, when they stumbled upon putting minds and souls into machines first. That along with hologram tech make their chosen solution which confines the Endless in one place and destroys the universe, extra stupid. They basically invented their own version of the Omicron, tossed out that idea and went with a paperclip paradox instead. WHY?

[Raven2014]

This is my personal theory as to why mecha-Otis was killed so suddenly and so pointlessly. If we had 'living' Otis exist at the same time as 'Endless' Otis (well, they DID exist at the same time for like 400 years but I guess they want us to think about it), it would kind of make it unacceptably clear how what they're going for emotionally in living memory is NOT what's happening lol. They had to make sure he wasn't around in the hopes that we just wouldn't think that hard about it.

It also begs the question why they went with the Endless that require an ever increasing amount of aether that would eventually destroy all life in the universe, when they stumbled upon putting minds and souls into machines first. That along with hologram tech make their chosen solution which confines the Endless in one place and destroys the universe, extra stupid. They basically invented their own version of the Omicron, tossed out that idea and went with a paperclip paradox instead. WHY?

Given the fact Mechanical Otis had no problem sustained himself for 400+ years, it does lend credential to the theory the writers realize they had to kill him off for anything in Zone 6 to make sense.


In a way, it's kinda like how Walt Disney wanted to side line Luke in StarWar so they can tell their own story instead.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

Given the fact Mechanical Otis had no problem sustained himself for 400+ years, it does lend credential to the theory the writers realize they had to kill him off for anything in Zone 6 to make sense.


In a way, it's kinda like how Walt Disney wanted to side line Luke in StarWar so they can tell their own story instead.

Even then it doesn't make sense because regulators exist and from Sphene's wording it makes it sound like the new MACHINES have regulators. Why would that be the case? But because that's the case that means even if you put memories and souls in machines, if you give those machines regulators you can just put them in new machines if that machine breaks down. These idiots have already figured out a less stupid path to immortality yet went with the method that literally destroys all life instead. WHY?!

Sorry, this turned into a bit of a rant.

You have every right to rant. You paid $40 for this slop.

It's not about "letting go". It's about Legacy.
All the themes were about different approaches over the theme "legacy". The expectation to uphold it, the dismissal of it, the ignorance that comes from it, the status quo of preserving it, the burden of carrying it.

Erenville was indeed a sad moment, it was basically plugging his mom from life support. It was the right thing to do, but devastating for him for sure.

While I agree they tried to write a story about legacy, what we got was a bunch of trash parents dumping their baggage onto kids they failed to properly raise.

[OMGJesuis66]

While I agree they tried to write a story about legacy, what we got was a bunch of trash parents dumping their baggage onto kids they failed to properly raise.

So... An accurate Real Life worthy story? LOL

[Lady_Silvermoon]

So... An accurate Real Life worthy story? LOL

True. Though I'm usually not charged $40 bucks to watch and I'm definitely not told this is a good thing actually. "Sure you spent the first 22 years of your life in tears begging your mom not to leave as she dumped you off on some random lady to have a good time with the boys. But now she's dead so dedicate the next 275 years of your life trying to fulfill her dreams."

She's one of the most popular characters in the expansion and I wanted to a way to bring her back just so I could delete her again.

The entire point of Alexandria is not just preserving their memories but also keep them living their best lives without ever knowing loss. They even show that the system conspires to reunite loved ones and even keep your image similar to what you looked like when you're at your happiest. It was never about immortality for immortality's sake.
*snip*

They had entire armies of machines. And did they say the robots are made of electrope? Even if they are they have tons of them. And if they have holograms and your thinking, feeling, loved one could remain by your side after death in a robot, wouldn't that be a world without loss? It'd even make more sense towards their goals than deleting swaths of people's memories (which should have changed their personality) and creating a system that was obviously doomed to fail from lack of resources.

And robo-Otis seemed to have a pretty meaningful life. He raised a kid. Are you saying the only way to having a meaningful life is to be a sundered biological being? And even if they came to the conclusion the only meaningful life was that in a physical body, then they could have worked on cloning, that coupled with the regulators again solves the issue and gets them what they want in the long-term unlike their method which ends the universe. If she's a program, shouldn't she have glitched out knowing her primary function was impossible? It reminds me of War Games where at the end the AI realizes that there is no win scenario available and decides to play chess instead.

There is no "they", and the Endless is not "living". They're simulated data with their soul been tripped and become a commodity long times ago. *snip*

Yes, that is one of two interpretations and I don't blame you for holding it as it is stated and supported with evidence as is the alternative read. After all, why am I dressing up like a bunny to give child exhibits 'happy memories'?

[Steelpapercranes]

Yes, that is one of two interpretations and I don't blame you for holding it as it is stated and supported with evidence as is the alternative read. After all, why am I dressing up like a bunny to give child exhibits 'happy memories'?

I don't know if the endless are people or not- but what bothered me is that the game doesn't seem interested in even asking that question. I guess they couldn't? They needed:

1. The endless to NOT seem fake/uncanny/ingenuine, because that would ruin the touching moments they wanted to have with dead loved ones in each and every section (3 dead moms...yeesh)
2. The endless TO seem fake and not genuine, because after the touching moment telling mom you love her, you delete her from existence, lol.

It's a real catch-22 they wrote themselves into, and that makes me pretty darn certain they'll never answer it- and hell, forget answering it. They'll probably try hard to keep anyone from thinking about it if they can. And I dislikey.

[Ririta]

Even then it doesn't make sense because regulators exist and from Sphene's wording it makes it sound like the new MACHINES have regulators. Why would that be the case? But because that's the case that means even if you put memories and souls in machines, if you give those machines regulators you can just put them in new machines if that machine breaks down. These idiots have already figured out a less stupid path to immortality yet went with the method that literally destroys all life instead. WHY?!

The entire point of Alexandria is not just preserving their memories but also keep them living their best lives without ever knowing loss. They even show that the system conspires to reunite loved ones and even keep your image similar to what you looked like when you're at your happiest. It was never about immortality for immortality's sake.

You yourself mentioned the omicron, who themselves admit that they don't know if they're even human and are very destroyable. Are alexandrians idiots for choosing to not be something that we already know doesn't work nor leads to happiness?

Plus, "just put them into new machines" wouldn't even be possible given enough time.

Electrope scarcity and the following war between nations was exactly what triggered Lindblum to launch the weapon that caused the calamity. Given enough time this idea of stuffing people into machines (as if they were things) would fail just as bad as the endless.

[Raven2014]

There is no "they", and the Endless is not "living". They're simulated data with their soul been tripped and become a commodity long times ago.

In a way, the last zone is basically just a futuristic and advanced museum. Now if someone vandalize or burn down a museum, I might be upset at the histocal value that is lost. But it's kinda idiotic for for the story to implies burning down pictures in museum is similar to murder real living people.

And frankly? It may works if the writers had the skill for it. In my experience there are only two (game) writers that have the skill to pull a convoluted storyboard out of their arse and make them compelling/interesting: Hideo Kojima and Yoko Taro. If those two are masters, the writers of DT are not skill enough to be even their apprentices.