Machinist: The "Selfish" Physical Ranged that is not allowed to be Selfish

[Valence]

Four casters, you forgot SAM.

SAM is not a caster and neither is RPR, nor SMN.

[Taranok]

Job not only needs a rework but all Physical range should have some sort of structure of Risk and Reward..

How you can balance range job with 0 casting?

I am not saying that Phy range should have a cast but the current state are just bad

I don't think MCH needs a rework aside from maybe baking in anti-drift into the game (without relying on multiple charges) and fixing the aoe rotation. But I don't think they need a risk/reward structure so much as the devs need to go back to the ARR and Stormblood encounter design era, and make tests that affect each role differently and uniquely. Neo Exdeath presents interesting examples for melee and casters in that delta attack is a problem for casters but not for melee, while vacuum wave and boss jumps were a test for melee but not casters. Rphys just didn't care, so it got taxed. Meanwhile, fights like UWU, UCOB, Turn 7, TEA, and a host of others have entire mechanics that capitalize on the thing that makes rphys unique -- unlimited mobility and range -- to test these roles in other ways. Classic example being brute justice's jump into apoc ray or what is probably barely known these days, the cyclops that had to be snared and kited around in turn 7. The risk is the cyclops will 1-shot you. The reward is solving the mechanic correctly with a second party member, allowing you to advance the fight. And you got to use a niche tool. Once. In all of end-game raiding.

Homogenizing mechanics down to dances that basically are giant middle fingers to casters but otherwise generic body checks or "Everyone just moves to the safe spot together," is just incredibly boring and frustrating design. And I'd really like to see a return to rphys having to bait liquid hells or boss jumps or, hell, having to draw aggro on a mob and kite it around for an extended period of time to correctly solve a mechanic later. Then the 'tax' is that you're multitasking, which has been the rphys gimmick since at least Stormblood anyways, and hopefully makes rphys players feel like they're needed because of something unique they do, instead of just there for the 1% buff and party mits that the devs have been giving to every role anyways.

[Basteala]

Job not only needs a rework but all Physical range should have some sort of structure of Risk and Reward..

How you can balance range job with 0 casting?

I am not saying that Phy range should have a cast but the current state are just bad

It's honestly this, whether Ranged mains want to hear it or not. Casters (true casters at least) have to worry about the bar, melee have to--in theory--worry about positionals and engagement range, even if both are kinda "eh" nowadays.

Ranged can kinda do whatever the frick it wants.

[Duskane]

MCH more so needs its AOE to actually mesh with rest of the kit and for devs to decide what to do with phys range
not so much a rework

[Valence]

I don't think MCH needs a rework aside from maybe baking in anti-drift into the game (without relying on multiple charges) and fixing the aoe rotation. But I don't think they need a risk/reward structure so much as the devs need to go back to the ARR and Stormblood encounter design era, and make tests that affect each role differently and uniquely. Neo Exdeath presents interesting examples for melee and casters in that delta attack is a problem for casters but not for melee, while vacuum wave and boss jumps were a test for melee but not casters. Rphys just didn't care, so it got taxed. Meanwhile, fights like UWU, UCOB, Turn 7, TEA, and a host of others have entire mechanics that capitalize on the thing that makes rphys unique -- unlimited mobility and range -- to test these roles in other ways. Classic example being brute justice's jump into apoc ray or what is probably barely known these days, the cyclops that had to be snared and kited around in turn 7. The risk is the cyclops will 1-shot you. The reward is solving the mechanic correctly with a second party member, allowing you to advance the fight. And you got to use a niche tool. Once. In all of end-game raiding.

Homogenizing mechanics down to dances that basically are giant middle fingers to casters but otherwise generic body checks or "Everyone just moves to the safe spot together," is just incredibly boring and frustrating design. And I'd really like to see a return to rphys having to bait liquid hells or boss jumps or, hell, having to draw aggro on a mob and kite it around for an extended period of time to correctly solve a mechanic later. Then the 'tax' is that you're multitasking, which has been the rphys gimmick since at least Stormblood anyways, and hopefully makes rphys players feel like they're needed because of something unique they do, instead of just there for the 1% buff and party mits that the devs have been giving to every role anyways.

I want more things to do as rphys and things to bait in general (pantokrator was one of the funniest/best raid I ever did as rphys), but it's hardly enough to justify this tax unless encounters are literally littered with it.

[Basteala]

MCH more so needs its AOE to actually mesh with rest of the kit and for devs to design what to do with phys range
not so much a rework

Yeah the fact that Auto Crossbow isn't much better, or at all (according to some people I talk to) better than Blast Zone in AoE is kinda dumb.

Also Flamethrower.

[Ayan_Calvesse]

Job not only needs a rework but all Physical range should have some sort of structure of Risk and Reward..

How you can balance range job with 0 casting?

I am not saying that Phy range should have a cast but the current state are just bad

BUT THEY HAVE RANGE!

*looks at the boss hitbox touching his feet from the edge of the arena*

[Ramiee]

sounds like you should just play picto and leave the non-fotm jobs to more experienced players

I mean I am playing picto and its fun. Machinist could take inspiration from picto because I think the preparing attacks design is something that could work well in mch. Doesn't need to be exactly like picto but then again I'm not defending the job that has flamethrower in its current state for 5 years.

[Ramiee]

It was way better in SB.

When I said uncapping from 6 GCD I didn't mean to change it back to SB and HW however. I just said, remove the cap to 6 GCDs so we can do double hypercharges and get a 7GCD wildfire. It favors skill expression within the current model well.

Ik I was just wondering about how hw Wildfire would work in raid buff meta.

[CKNovel]

It's honestly this, whether Ranged mains want to hear it or not. Casters (true casters at least) have to worry about the bar, melee have to--in theory--worry about positionals and engagement range, even if both are kinda "eh" nowadays.

Ranged can kinda do whatever the frick it wants.

Viper exist, a job that can maintain perfect uptime thanks to Uncoiled Fury.
Black Mage isn't the turret fantasy it used to be.
Pictomancer has a lot of instant cast and a dash on a 20s that even grants a sprint just if you're not sure.
A lot of dashes have seen their damage removed, on charges, making melee uptime easier. Ranged GCDs don't break the combo anymore.
Positionals, if you somehow to manage missing them all, will cost you only 3% of your DPS.

Physical ranged can... Run in circles.
The challenge to keep the uptime isn't the same as back in Heavensward.

As for the final nail:
Back in E8S, we've had the first content ever that forced melees to disconnect many times. However the physical ranged remained at the bottom but instead it was the caster who went through the roof, SMN and BLM would wipe the floor with every other jobs, even RDM was able to compete with Samurai.
Turns, out, it wasn't the mobility that was strong, but the ability to attack from afar.