Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Kaziek]

Not my image (credits to the JP forum), but I think this perfectly demonstrates one of the biggest downgrades of the graphical update (F1 Midlanders):

Man it really does hurt to see. It's unfortunate that the comparison is so low quality, but I think even through that it's pretty obvious to see how different they are from each other. At this point I'm pretty resigned to dealing with it since it seems like SE as usual doesn't really care if it's not an overwhelming majority that is upset with something.

[faiarrow]

Others have mentioned the eyebrows being thinner while either the shape of the eyes,the eye texture or a combination make them look slightly smaller or more tired. There is also the wrinkling between the eyes and nose that is a bit less visible, and i think overall from comparing the front view it seems the face got squished a bit unless it is just the angles being slightly off..
I still... really really miss the feel the old eye textures gave, like i went for a white shade for a reason.

Yeah, the missing normal map for Face 2's brow is a huge problem, we've just got random baked in shading that looks like an unfinished contour because the actual 3D data for lighting isn't there. (Excuse the JP on these - it's from my bug reports and other feedback posts)







I'm never over face 3 getting straight up yassified. There is no other way I can describe how butchered this is... (6.5 - Bench 1.1 - 7.0)



Fun fact: roegadyn jewel eyes still exist... on female highlander face 4 and male roe face 2.



(7.0 healer quest NPC)


(I don't have a 7.0 shot for this but they do still have the coloured pupil, saturation is just out the wazoo as is most things since 7.0 in comparison.)


I still think the horrific unification polygon problem re: emotes is pretty egregious... her nose gains a full inch and her entire *SKULL* moves up and back to make /shocked.



Great update, CU3. Fantastic damn update.
Give me my characters back please lmfao.

[Iscah]

lI still think the horrific unification polygon problem re: emotes is pretty egregious... her nose gains a full inch and her entire *SKULL* moves up and back to make /shocked.

I've been noticing on multiple NPCs that shocked/worried "inner point goes upwards" eyebrow expressions look weirdly stretched like that. Haven't tested it on my own characters yet.

[faiarrow]

I've been noticing on multiple NPCs that shocked/worried "inner point goes upwards" eyebrow expressions look weirdly stretched like that. Haven't tested it on my own characters yet.

Yeah - JP forums have pointed it out on the highlander NPC in zone 4 where it's suuuuuper obvious how scuffed it is.
One of the Hyuran NPCs in the BSM/ARM Wachumeqimeqi quests makes the face SO much during those story cutscenes it's really distracting.

[Iscah]

Yeah - JP forums have pointed it out on the highlander NPC in zone 4 where it's suuuuuper obvious how scuffed it is.
One of the Hyuran NPCs in the BSM/ARM Wachumeqimeqi quests makes the face SO much during those story cutscenes it's really distracting.

Haha, yeah it was the Highlander in the sidequest cutscene that got me really looking at what the others were doing too.

[noumen0nn]

I've been noticing on multiple NPCs that shocked/worried "inner point goes upwards" eyebrow expressions look weirdly stretched like that. Haven't tested it on my own characters yet.

It's far from the only expression that looks off right now, but shocked is like, amazingly bad. Her head is tilted up in this image, why can I see practically every one of her bottom teeth? And why are they above her top lip at the corners?

[Moxxi]

Yeah, the missing normal map for Face 2's brow is a huge problem, we've just got random baked in shading that looks like an unfinished contour because the actual 3D data for lighting isn't there.

I'm never over face 3 getting straight up yassified. There is no other way I can describe how butchered this is...

Fun fact: roegadyn jewel eyes still exist... on female highlander face 4 and male roe face 2.



I still think the horrific unification polygon problem re: emotes is pretty egregious... her nose gains a full inch and her entire *SKULL* moves up and back to make /shocked.


Great update, CU3. Fantastic damn update.
Give me my characters back please lmfao.

You would think there would be more quality control on something like this, considering how important player characters are and how it would even touch npcs that is all over the game. Missing normal map is something i could see in programs like second life with mostly user based stuff, not a big company like this.

I admit Roegadyn is a new found love for me so not seen or used much of the other faces yet, but face 3 were in consideration to use but the lack of eye shadow facial feature that face 2 and 4 have made me not use it. I can't comment on the yassified part without comparing tomorrow for myself how the face looks but i trust you on it.

Eyes i see as a key feature so it boggles my mind really that they decided to change that so drastically and only have that one male face keep it. In turn i tried to check how Luna would look as a hellsguard for more human skin tones but found the white of the eyes too bright, were they like that before dawntrail? Doesn't seem to be as bad on seawolf but i stick to paler skin tones so not as jarring.
Expressions so far have been a mixed bag, a lot of the sad, worried or other expressions with the inner part of eyebrow curling up looks.. goofy to me.
I should have done more playing with them too before update to remember if the squinting were always so strong that you barely see the iris.

[faiarrow]

Eyes i see as a key feature so it boggles my mind really that they decided to change that so drastically and only have that one male face keep it. In turn i tried to check how Luna would look as a hellsguard for more human skin tones but found the white of the eyes too bright, were they like that before dawntrail? Doesn't seem to be as bad on seawolf but i stick to paler skin tones so not as jarring.

Yeah the over-bright eye whites were a problem in bench 1.0 and even 1.1 - it's more toned down in 7.0 likely due to more lighting adjustments than anything since they haven't touched the actual flat diffuse and the amped contrast/saturation DT has as a whole, but if you're anything darker than a mild tan it can look pretty over-bright.

This is 6.5 - Bench 1 - Bench 1.1 - 7.0


All femroe faces re: loss of coloured pupils during benchmark feedback phase:


Bit clearer on this one to see the white brightness on the eyeball.

[Doopliss]

Re: Expressions: They really are scuffed on every single race. Some are worse and more buggy than others, but I haven't had a single one of my thirteen(!) characters manage to avoid all of their emotes having:
1. Twitchy lips
2. Twitchy brows
3. Eyes too narrowed or too widened
4. Smile pulled up unnaturally tightly
5. Some fifth other thing unique to them

I took screenshots of all of my characters' Adventurer Plates right before 7.0 hit, because I had a feeling the feature changes would mess up their expressions (and was half correct; turns out bugs also mess them up!) and wanted to save something simpler to reference.

Unfortunately I just never had the energy to go through a bunch of emotes and take reference-worthy screenshots of them... I play a lot of different race/gender combinations though, so hoping this might still help in some way for some...


♀ Elezen Face 4. This is one I did edit lighting on because, well, she's my main, and one of the like, three characters I'm still okay with. The eyes got more narrowed for some reason here, and while I'm fine with how this looks...this is supposed to be the "Concentrate" expression. Now it looks too much like "Annoyed".


♀ Midlander Face 2; "Concentrate". Eyebrow barely manages to lower at all... Also her eye shape difference is showing even too much at this angle, so it's kind of hard to tell what else is going on.


♂ Miqo'te Face 1; "Amazed". Eyebrows move in a different direction and eyes grow way too wide. Lips also don't curve enough. Looks more like "Frightened" now...


♀ Au Ra Face 2; "Taunt". Eyes feel too narrow and forehead scales stretch down with her brow for some reason now? Though also her face has just changed too much to even be certain on some things.


♂ Au Ra Face 3; "Think". Honestly this one still just takes me out. Lips are way too pursed due to the new lip shape, and the eyebrow on the right doesn't curve with the left one.


♂ Lalafell Face 2; "Smirk". Just miffed at this one because it feels like my Lalafell isn't allowed to have a hint of personality outside of "cute" for sure now, lol. Lips stretch in a completely different way and don't grow as wide, making the smirk look less like a smirk. Weirdly, eyes also can't look as far off to the side anymore? The upper area of Lalafellin eyes seem to have darkened way too much, like ♀ Viera now, too.


♀ Viera Face 2; "Furrow". I had her look down and away to give a more wistful expression. Why do her eyes...do that now...


♀ Au Ra Face 3; "Furrow". Her eyebrows do the worm in the update.


♀ Roegadyn Face 4; "Wink". God, this one is kind of just...everything. Poor Roegadyn women really did get shafted as usual. Her lips are pulled up too narrowly and too tightly, and her eye has pressed shut in the opposite direction. She looks like she forgot how to wink.


♂ Miqo'te Face 4; "Annoyed". Upper lip is pulled up too high, giving him a more pouty expression. It's also pulled up high enough that his teeth start to show.

Artifacting from the teeth can actually be seen slightly on the zoom in...


♂ Midlander Face 4; "Shush". Honestly, this emote seems fine... I think this image just further illustrates the facial feature differences. It helped me notice that it wasn't his nose that got shorter--it's that his mouth is placed lower on his face!


♂ Viera Face 2; "Grin". This one is, well, fine. I can live with this difference. But for reasons particular to me, I loved the slightly wider smile and more narrowed eyes...


♀ Highlander Face 1; "Victory". The expression might be fine? I honestly can't tell with this one still, because several things about her got so scuffed just because she has one of the darkest skin tones...

Anyway! Really sorry for this niche and definitely horribly organized post. It's honestly, really, really embarrassing showing off how many characters I play and care about--before this I enjoyed being quiet and not connecting them all together--but it's also just as hard to sit back and hope. I have so many characters because I do love this world, and I love creating characters with their own specific aesthetics, personalities, goals, and writing stories around all of that. Even though I'm not good at editing and definitely annoying about it at this point, I feel like I need to try as much as I can...

posting to the forum sucks aaaaaaa i hope everything goes well and we can all forget about this within a few months anyway hopefully my last post for a while since i just threw them all out there

[Iscah]

lAnyway! Really sorry for this niche and definitely horribly organized post. It's honestly, really, really embarrassing showing off how many characters I play and care about--before this I enjoyed being quiet and not connecting them all together--but it's also just as hard to sit back and hope. I have so many characters because I do love this world, and I love creating characters with their own specific aesthetics, personalities, goals, and writing stories around all of that. Even though I'm not good at editing and definitely annoying about it at this point, I feel like I need to try as much as I can...

Don't be embarrassed! I'm in a similar situation and a similar approach to creating lots of characters based on specific concepts and lore ideas, and I've been meaning to make a similar post myself once I gather up all my screenshots better. I unfortunately didn't think to take screenshots of portraits, but I've got stacks of glamour, cutscene screenshots and random admiring-my-character screenshots to go through.

---

On a separate note, I have ended up switching on the additional dark eye makeup setting for Aurelie and it helps a bit to get the clear outline of the eyes back, but they're still the wrong shape overall and it doesn't fix the weird things that lighting now does to faces. (Plus, if turning it on gets me back to sort of where my character previously was without it, what does that mean for the people previously using it?)

I feel like maybe the smaller eyes have changed the face proportions enough that the very high hairline of her previous usual hairstyle isn't quite working any more. Though maybe I'm thrown off a bit by having tried the newly released style for a few days (which has a particularly low hairline) so going back looked more odd. Now I'm trying some others but really I'd like to get back to her normal look.