Dawntrail is a good Story but not a Great Story. (SPOILERS)

[Donze]

Considering review scores, I'm gonna go ahead and say thus isn't accurate. DT doesn't even have characters as compelling as the ones you mentioned, and characters are something expansions can live or die by even if other things are nonsense. SB was slow and kinda boring but it still made sense thematically. DT just throws a bunch of shit at the wall and prays you won't think too hard.

I would also add in agreement with Turtle that the writing (that is to say the wordy dialogue AND the way story telling was presented other than dialogue) was on point in Stormblood, even if slow and at times a wall of text, as you say.
An example of why DT is crap and SB was good is articulated well by Ankior in a post about worldbuilding and Show vs Tell, particually in reference to the field trip lectures where we are simply told what the beliefs are and largely removed from any discovery or exploration ourselves (remember that even the electors are for this occasion only, we rarely interact with anyone going about their usual day to day in DT: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...might_be_seen/

Now, back in Stormblood, we also meet different cultures and tribes, and one of them is the Undying ones in the Azim Steppe. The striking difference here is how we are exposed to information. Accompany with Gosetsu, we found two hunters fighting some beasts and one of them gets killed, later, after Gosetsu is uncomfortable with the way they disregard the body, we learn from Sadu that it doesn’t matter, because the person who died was a great warrior that will be reborn. From this we learn of their beliefs of reincarnation, that their great warriors don’t fear death. Even their names may be from a past reincarnation. This prompts Gosetsu to seek out the body, and there we sit with him as he reflects on all of this.

Gosetsu - “Pardon me. When first I heard the tales, I could not help but scoff. "Another queer tribe," I thought, "with still queerer customs." Yet having borne witness to their rites, I cannot deny there is a certain logic to it all. A samurai will die for his lord without hesitation or regret. But this is not because he delights in such sacrifice. It is because he has faith that his death will serve a higher purpose. There is an awakening in that instant, when the heart sings and the blood burns, and his soul...his soul finds peace. There is comfort in that…”

There is a similar parallel in Shadowbringers when we participate in the funeral with the Night's Blessed. Show, dont tell.

Both of these are just examples, one of which from SB, of the difference. I 100% agree with Trutledeluxe that "DT just throws a bunch of shit at the wall and prays you won't think too hard", and would add that what IS thrown at you is given no second thoughts regarding consistency or continuity because it will never be revisited, so they didn't even try.

[Ketojan]

I think it’s reasonable to think SB was the weakest link MSQ wise at the time and then have something worse come along to make you realize “Oh if this is bad then I guess SB wasn’t that bad.” It was the halcyon days and we didn’t know it.

[Striker44]

Considering review scores, I'm gonna go ahead and say thus isn't accurate.

Review scores from users are relatively worthless here, since they tend to come from a very specific portion of the gaming population (which both *isn't* the general FFXIV population and *isn't* the kind likely to find stories about positivity and growth their thing). Critics who reviewed both DT and ARR back in the day tend to put them very close to each other, which makes sense to me given their similar nature coupled with DT having sharpened things since the ARR days but following ShB and EW vs. following 1.0.

The thing you're responding to is also an opinion, so the concept of one thing being "better" than another literally can't be "accurate" or "inaccurate."

DT doesn't even have characters as compelling as the ones you mentioned, and characters are something expansions can live or die by even if other things are nonsense.

This is an opinion. What is the obsession with the negative echo chamber around here trying to tell people their opinions are wrong?

SB was slow and kinda boring but it still made sense thematically.

Also an opinion.

DT just throws a bunch of shit at the wall and prays you won't think too hard.

Ditto.

But you can't tell me with a straight face she's never seen how hanuhanu greet each other, when she is constantly running around the city. Heck, she visited their festival as a child. Unless she fell on her head or grew up chained up inside her bedroom, there's no excuse how she wouldn't know a simple greeting.

She only knows the hanuhanu that moved to Tuliyollal. I know in my own interactions with the various hanuhanu NPC's in the capital, I never saw any of them give the "traditional" greeting. I could easily see something like that going by the wayside among the group that moved to Tuliyollal, especially given how other aspects of hanuhanu culture have gradually receded from memory.

(I encourage you to use google translate and read anything with 50+ upvotes/likes, not just the mega threads).

(I encourage you to go to Youtube and poke around a bit; you'll find comments talking about the story being meaningful and impactful getting hundreds of upvotes.)

I think it’s reasonable to think SB was the weakest link MSQ wise at the time and then have something worse come along to make you realize “Oh if this is bad then I guess SB wasn’t that bad.” It was the halcyon days and we didn’t know it.

I'm sensing rose-colored glasses instead. People naturally tend to view the past as better than it really was. Then again, this forum has said every expansion is the worst ever when it was current, only to go back and praise them later.

[Donze]

(I encourage you to use google translate and read anything with 50+ upvotes/likes, not just the mega threads).
(I encourage you to go to Youtube and poke around a bit; you'll find comments talking about the story being meaningful and impactful getting hundreds of upvotes.)

How is this relevant?
I have no doubt there are people saying the story is impactful and meaningful. There are people here doing that (you dont have to go to Youtube for that).
There are also Youtube videos expressing frustration over the poor story with thousands of likes.

Neither of those observations (the fact that Youtube exists and there are videos for and against the DT story) change the fact that, as I stated, "Even the JP forums, long know for being more defensive of FF than other regions, is tearing this dialogue and story telling apart (I encourage you to use google translate and read anything with 50+ upvotes/likes, not just the mega threads)." Looking at anything with 50+ is just qualify volume of JP sharing the frustration (read every post if you'd like) while avoiding regarding a single mega thread as reflective of all the players.

The point being that even what is usually the more polite and defensive voices of the JP forums have expressed frustration with the DT story (which I encourage you to verify for yourself, dont just take my word), so any claim that "DT is fine because X was also bad" or that "People saying DT story is bad has no merit and should stop saying that!", appears to be ignorant and ill-informed.

[Bright-Flower]

For me DT was about on part with SB. Better in some ways but worse in others. Ultimately it could have been a lot better if other characters besides Wuk Lamat got more moments to really shine before the final zone. For me it was a big step down from SHB/EW but not terrible or anything. Enjoyable to go through once but I'd probably skip the cutscenes if I leveled another character through it.

[Xellith]

The more you go thru the msq you see how she lerns on evrey part of her journey. She goes from the young "shelterd" Girl who only knew about the diffrent cultures of Tural thru tales and what she expirienced in Tuliyollal to a leader who understands her peopel. She lerns evry step of the way.

How did it change her though? She started out very naive, thinking she knew everything about her people, and wanting peace, love, and happiness for them. She finished being naive, knowing a few facts of her people, and wanting peace, love, and happiness for them. Apart from "learning of other peoples cultures", what exactly did she learn? How did these experiences shape who she became? Because from where I'm standing shes very much the same person she was before her journey. Her experiences didnt really shape her. You can almost see Koana and Wuk Lamat as two sides of the same coin. Where Koana learned to understand and accept the different cultures of Tural, Wuk Lamat didnt really learn to accept that some things need to change. She just filled in the culture gaps in her head that she already thought she had filled.

It would have been a strong moment of growth for her to throw in the towel to let Koana win the rite. Saying "I understand that you are a changed man. I believe you understand the type of leader that Tural needs. We both know that I dont have what it takes to lead a nation. My dream of being dawnservant, with my aspirations for the Turali people of peace, love and happiness are so childish. They arent a strong foundation for national policies". But no. The smart one throws in the towel.. which I dont think he would do since Wuk is a bit of an airhead. Not what Tural needs at all after his own personal growth. Tural is lucky enough that Wuk Lamat recognises this, so she offers him the job of Head of Resolve.

It just feels so.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXWmgX-V02k

[Kasasagi]

Tural is lucky enough that Wuk Lamat recognises this, so she offers him the job of Head of Resolve.

It just feels so.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXWmgX-V02k

And here it is. You say it yourself. But she didn'T offer him the position of Head of Resolve out of nowhere. She had it planned ahead of time.

[Ketojan]

I'm sensing rose-colored glasses instead. People naturally tend to view the past as better than it really was. Then again, this forum has said every expansion is the worst ever when it was current, only to go back and praise them later.

My bad for speaking is if for everyone, but big disagree. I can still see the negatives that SB had, I just realize that it wasn’t the worst. I loved Zenos, Fordola, Yatsuyu, Alisaie becoming part of the crew more, and I felt nothing towards Lyse. Comparing this to DT, I feel nothing for most of these new character, and straight up hate Wuk lamat. I've also personally realized SB wasn’t the worst for the last two expansions combat wise, not story wise tho because I think shb and endwalker were peak for ffxiv. So for me it’s the halcyon days, I didn’t know how good I had it at the time.

[OMGJesuis66]

My bad for speaking is if for everyone, but big disagree. I can still see the negatives that SB had, I just realize that it wasn’t the worst. I loved Zenos, Fordola, Yatsuyu, Alisaie becoming part of the crew more, and I felt nothing towards Lyse. Comparing this to DT, I feel nothing for most of these new character, and straight up hate Wuk lamat. I've also personally realized SB wasn’t the worst for the last two expansions combat wise, not story wise tho because I think shb and endwalker were peak for ffxiv. So for me it’s the halcyon days, I didn’t know how good I had it at the time.

All that you said is a personal opinion. Zenos, Fordola, Yotsuyu to me were vastly irrelevant in SB.
And I would argue almost every single character in DT is better represented and more human than even the Scions, which are with us 99% of the time.
But that's my opinion, soooo... We both know ours means as much as nothing.

[Ketojan]

Isn’t this forum post a personal opinion? Or are you and OP stating a fact? Also do you deny that Thancreds story of grief and how he handled that with Ryne in SHB was not human? Because while I didn’t care for the man, it was written in a way that made me actually feel something for him. Or do we not care because it’s my opinion?